Visions of Enmity

discussions about Atlanta metal bands

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samsara
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Post by samsara » Sat October 27th, 2007, 8:35 pm

Hey Matt, a word of caution: if your head gets any further up your ass, you're going to rupture an organ.

Blarg!
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Post by Blarg! » Sun October 28th, 2007, 12:18 am

samsara wrote:
Matt Parsons wrote:
Well it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's kind of retarded when you show it to other people and let them laugh at it, but then can't offer any other explanation as to why you hold that opinion.
First, I had never heard it before when I showed it to everyone. Alex told me that his vocals had improved a lot, and I wanted to hear it. It's always a pleasure to hear good, new metal, especially from my home town. I didn't say, "Check out this shitty band, and their shitty singer!!" I simply said, "Hey listen to this new local band." The reaction speaks for itself. By the way, most of the people at the party were fans of power metal more so than death or black metal.
You guys can listen to whatever you want to, but my band is catering to fans of traditional metal. It wouldn't make any sense for you, your band, or any other "extreme metal" fans to like the vocals because they're a completely different style.
You need to understand that I like a LOT of metal. Hell, two of my favorite bands are Into Eternity and Judas Priest, both of which have virtuoso vocalists. When I listen to extreme metal, its more for the drums and guitars than vocals. When I want to hear excellent vocals, I turn to Kamelot, Iron Maiden, Angra, Mercenary, Strapping Young Lad, etc.
It doesn't bother us at all that you don't like them, I just wanted some kind of reason as to why you feel the need to get on the damn internet and talk a bunch of shit about it.
Maybe because you posted them up on the internet on a public message board? It isn't that I don't like them, its that they aren't good. I don't like Hammerfall's vocals, but I know that they are good vocals. I don't like Dream Theater's vocals, but I know that they're good. Etc.
Well I’d just like to step in and basically reiterate what Cameron said, I don’t give a flying shit what any death metal, or whatever its called now, (I don’t really follow all the genres they get to be ridiculous) say about my vocals, it is a very different style,
lulz I'm a death metal
I know my vocals are far from perfect as of yet, they are very much a work in progress, as is any instrument that's just being learned, I sure as hell didn’t just pick up a guitar and know how to play it well when I had just started, same with this.
Ok, I understand exactly where you're coming from. The difference is, when you sucked at guitar, you didn't post it up on the internet for the whole world to see. And, if you had, people would have said, "This is shitty guitar playing." And they would have been right.

Likewise, NO ONE cares that you've only been singing for so long and don't have it mastered. They don't want to hear your voice until its good. Until then, if you keep recording crappy vocals, people are going to completely dismiss your band, and will associate you with shitty vocals, completely tainting any future bands you're in. Don't do that to yourself.
That being said i remember that i taught myself how to "scream" in a matter of days though. In my opinion screaming is not an instrument, and it destroys any of the musical qualities death metal possesses, screaming vocals aren't pitched, so it seems reminiscent of having a non pitched percussion instrument out front playing the "melody." And you can't tell me it has to do with lyrics, because you can't understand the lyrics in any screaming vocals (possibly aside from Chuck Schuldiner from Death). Its not musical and therefore not my thing, but I don’t get on the internet and talk about how awful every "dirty" vocalist is, even though its much easier to distort your voice until it sounds "heavy," than to have to work on actual vocal ideas like vibrato, intonation, range, dictation, etc.
You learned to scream in a matter of days? That explains why your scream is completely weak sounding. So if it is so unmusical, why do you use it in your music?

What do you think Devin Townsend would say about that? He's probably one of the most talented musicians in metal today, and his vocals range from soft singing to balls out screams. His screams are definitely pitched, definitely have vibrato, and definitely are understandable.

Just because a lot of people suck at screaming, does not mean that all screaming sucks.

Let me reiterate my purpose with this: I'm not trying to make you feel like shit. I'm not trying to say, "Fuck you Justin Jackson and your shitty vocals!!" I'm saying, "That sounds bad, and you shouldn't do it".

It really detracts from your music, which is otherwise pretty solid.
In my opinion any kind of screaming isn’t my thing, good, bad, whatever, I don’t care. Its just not an "instrument" (if you want to call it that) that I want to hear anymore. I used to use screaming in my music, but I also used to shit in diapers and eat liquified food when I was born. Well I grew out of that just like I grew out of screaming vocals, if you're referring to the little bit of screaming in that hierarchy song that was my brother, and it was an effect, I suppose screaming can work for a musical effect, just like a minor 2nd or a blast beat, communicating anguish or a sinister side of the song, but when it becomes almost the whole song it ceases to serve a musical purpose and becomes overdone and annoying to me.

I just got sick of the focus being on "heavy" songs rather than musical ones and I really cant listen to noise like that anymore.

As far as my screaming in SIE went, I respect the opinions of Atheist and Gnostic as far as dirty vocals go much more than yours, they genuinely liked the screaming vocals I did and they are an established death metal act.

Finally you aren't making me feel like shit, you couldn’t if you tried, just because you know a few more traditional metal bands doesn’t make you an aficionado on anything from that genre. My brother posted for everyone to listen to the songs on here because we were looking for genuine critique not useless criticism where you don’t like it just because you don’t, thanks, that helps us out a lot... I knew from the second I decided to sing in this style that the vocals wouldn’t be liked by a lot of people, again, singing is the most subjective thing in today’s music, especially because its different than the norm around here. Screaming is much more safe, and therefore its not criticized half as much, but this area sure as hell doesn’t need another screaming, blast beat death metal band, in fact I don’t think there’s any need for another band like that in general. Its been done, the trend needs to go out, yes more power metal type music has also been done, but as far as I’m concerned there is much farther to go with it.

Anyway, I'm done sitting here arguing about it, I know it will never get anywhere with you guys, but I thought I'd just say those last few things. Sorry, but I'm never going to take your criticism seriously when you don't have a single thing to back it up.-


Justin
Wow,Someone can not take criticism well.

He's just trying to say your vocalist sucks,What if you just ignore it? Rather than writing an essay about it.

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Matt
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Post by Matt » Sun October 28th, 2007, 2:53 am

Blarg! wrote:
Wow,Someone can not take criticism well.

He's just trying to say your vocalist sucks,What if you just ignore it? Rather than writing an essay about it.

i totally agree with blarg, and to samsara, how exactly is my head up my ass? and maybe if your singer could lay down some good death metal vocals which is a lot more than just screaming if you ever tried, then maybe you could criticize
your church was turned into an abortion clinic and we use it all the time... sluts!!!

samsara
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Post by samsara » Sun October 28th, 2007, 11:38 am

Matt wrote:
Blarg! wrote:
Wow,Someone can not take criticism well.

He's just trying to say your vocalist sucks,What if you just ignore it? Rather than writing an essay about it.

i totally agree with blarg, and to samsara, how exactly is my head up my ass? and maybe if your singer could lay down some good death metal vocals which is a lot more than just screaming if you ever tried, then maybe you could criticize
Not you, the other Matt.

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Post by samsara » Sun October 28th, 2007, 11:49 am

Blarg! wrote:
samsara wrote:
Matt Parsons wrote:
Well it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's kind of retarded when you show it to other people and let them laugh at it, but then can't offer any other explanation as to why you hold that opinion.
First, I had never heard it before when I showed it to everyone. Alex told me that his vocals had improved a lot, and I wanted to hear it. It's always a pleasure to hear good, new metal, especially from my home town. I didn't say, "Check out this shitty band, and their shitty singer!!" I simply said, "Hey listen to this new local band." The reaction speaks for itself. By the way, most of the people at the party were fans of power metal more so than death or black metal.
You guys can listen to whatever you want to, but my band is catering to fans of traditional metal. It wouldn't make any sense for you, your band, or any other "extreme metal" fans to like the vocals because they're a completely different style.
You need to understand that I like a LOT of metal. Hell, two of my favorite bands are Into Eternity and Judas Priest, both of which have virtuoso vocalists. When I listen to extreme metal, its more for the drums and guitars than vocals. When I want to hear excellent vocals, I turn to Kamelot, Iron Maiden, Angra, Mercenary, Strapping Young Lad, etc.
It doesn't bother us at all that you don't like them, I just wanted some kind of reason as to why you feel the need to get on the damn internet and talk a bunch of shit about it.
Maybe because you posted them up on the internet on a public message board? It isn't that I don't like them, its that they aren't good. I don't like Hammerfall's vocals, but I know that they are good vocals. I don't like Dream Theater's vocals, but I know that they're good. Etc.
Well I’d just like to step in and basically reiterate what Cameron said, I don’t give a flying shit what any death metal, or whatever its called now, (I don’t really follow all the genres they get to be ridiculous) say about my vocals, it is a very different style,
lulz I'm a death metal
I know my vocals are far from perfect as of yet, they are very much a work in progress, as is any instrument that's just being learned, I sure as hell didn’t just pick up a guitar and know how to play it well when I had just started, same with this.
Ok, I understand exactly where you're coming from. The difference is, when you sucked at guitar, you didn't post it up on the internet for the whole world to see. And, if you had, people would have said, "This is shitty guitar playing." And they would have been right.

Likewise, NO ONE cares that you've only been singing for so long and don't have it mastered. They don't want to hear your voice until its good. Until then, if you keep recording crappy vocals, people are going to completely dismiss your band, and will associate you with shitty vocals, completely tainting any future bands you're in. Don't do that to yourself.
That being said i remember that i taught myself how to "scream" in a matter of days though. In my opinion screaming is not an instrument, and it destroys any of the musical qualities death metal possesses, screaming vocals aren't pitched, so it seems reminiscent of having a non pitched percussion instrument out front playing the "melody." And you can't tell me it has to do with lyrics, because you can't understand the lyrics in any screaming vocals (possibly aside from Chuck Schuldiner from Death). Its not musical and therefore not my thing, but I don’t get on the internet and talk about how awful every "dirty" vocalist is, even though its much easier to distort your voice until it sounds "heavy," than to have to work on actual vocal ideas like vibrato, intonation, range, dictation, etc.
You learned to scream in a matter of days? That explains why your scream is completely weak sounding. So if it is so unmusical, why do you use it in your music?

What do you think Devin Townsend would say about that? He's probably one of the most talented musicians in metal today, and his vocals range from soft singing to balls out screams. His screams are definitely pitched, definitely have vibrato, and definitely are understandable.

Just because a lot of people suck at screaming, does not mean that all screaming sucks.

Let me reiterate my purpose with this: I'm not trying to make you feel like shit. I'm not trying to say, "Fuck you Justin Jackson and your shitty vocals!!" I'm saying, "That sounds bad, and you shouldn't do it".

It really detracts from your music, which is otherwise pretty solid.
In my opinion any kind of screaming isn’t my thing, good, bad, whatever, I don’t care. Its just not an "instrument" (if you want to call it that) that I want to hear anymore. I used to use screaming in my music, but I also used to shit in diapers and eat liquified food when I was born. Well I grew out of that just like I grew out of screaming vocals, if you're referring to the little bit of screaming in that hierarchy song that was my brother, and it was an effect, I suppose screaming can work for a musical effect, just like a minor 2nd or a blast beat, communicating anguish or a sinister side of the song, but when it becomes almost the whole song it ceases to serve a musical purpose and becomes overdone and annoying to me.

I just got sick of the focus being on "heavy" songs rather than musical ones and I really cant listen to noise like that anymore.

As far as my screaming in SIE went, I respect the opinions of Atheist and Gnostic as far as dirty vocals go much more than yours, they genuinely liked the screaming vocals I did and they are an established death metal act.

Finally you aren't making me feel like shit, you couldn’t if you tried, just because you know a few more traditional metal bands doesn’t make you an aficionado on anything from that genre. My brother posted for everyone to listen to the songs on here because we were looking for genuine critique not useless criticism where you don’t like it just because you don’t, thanks, that helps us out a lot... I knew from the second I decided to sing in this style that the vocals wouldn’t be liked by a lot of people, again, singing is the most subjective thing in today’s music, especially because its different than the norm around here. Screaming is much more safe, and therefore its not criticized half as much, but this area sure as hell doesn’t need another screaming, blast beat death metal band, in fact I don’t think there’s any need for another band like that in general. Its been done, the trend needs to go out, yes more power metal type music has also been done, but as far as I’m concerned there is much farther to go with it.

Anyway, I'm done sitting here arguing about it, I know it will never get anywhere with you guys, but I thought I'd just say those last few things. Sorry, but I'm never going to take your criticism seriously when you don't have a single thing to back it up.-


Justin
Wow,Someone can not take criticism well.

He's just trying to say your vocalist sucks,What if you just ignore it? Rather than writing an essay about it.
No, criticism is welcomed. That's the reason I posted about the demos on this forum, but I do feel that when someone gives critique, they should have some sort of reason for doing so other than "they suck just because they do." That's not helping any.

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Matt
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Post by Matt » Sun October 28th, 2007, 4:27 pm

samsara wrote:
Matt wrote:
Blarg! wrote:
Wow,Someone can not take criticism well.

He's just trying to say your vocalist sucks,What if you just ignore it? Rather than writing an essay about it.

i totally agree with blarg, and to samsara, how exactly is my head up my ass? and maybe if your singer could lay down some good death metal vocals which is a lot more than just screaming if you ever tried, then maybe you could criticize
Not you, the other Matt.

i dont even know who the fuck that guy is, he cant be that important, he is coming off like he is some metal god of the atlanta scene or something hahahhahahaha
your church was turned into an abortion clinic and we use it all the time... sluts!!!

BlazeTSU
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Post by BlazeTSU » Mon October 29th, 2007, 12:15 am

man, its sad that this place has turned into such a soap opera.

i'll throw my two cents in here........who gives a damn if you respect me, my opinion, my vocals, my band.....yadda yadda yadda......THIS IS A PUBLIC MESSAGE BOARD.


anyway, to the point at hand......

FYI TO ALL INVOLVED IN THE DEBATE HERE - clean vocals are by far the most difficult thing to record. they transfer very poorly with the wrong equipment, acoustics, recording techniques......etc. so its insanely difficult to record something with "demo" quality and it have good clean vocals on it. even with all the right circumstances you have to lay down multiple vocal tracks to really make clean vocals "pop" and sound full and comprehendable.

samsara, and brother???? who really cares what everyone thinks if you like what you guys are doing? if you aren't catering to the masses then who gives a shit what a few people think about your vocals?

if you want a few bits of constructive criticism then here ya go....the vocals aren't without potential but there is definitely a pitch problem. the vocals fluctuate into both flat and sharp territories b/c you haven't found a melody to follow.....you're just going all over the place with little regard to relevance to the song. no great metal singer tries to hit every note in their range on every song. keep it simple and focus more on impact than just shoving every idea you've ever had into one song. i hope that makes sense. like don't try to shove vibrato on every single word and note....it sounds silly and more like a joke. also don't start every line on a low note and climb your way in thirds to highest note you could possibly sing and then do it all over again. it makes it sound like you are singing through a tornado siren.

i also couldn't understand the majority of the lyrics. you've made it a point to call out death metal or screaming b/c you can't understand the lyrics but i have no clue what you were saying either. i know that when you guys listen to the songs you can probably hear all the words perfectly but thats b/c its your music and your lyrics.......don't assume that everyone else is as familiar with your music as you are.

the best thing for you guys to do is seek the advice of bands and people you truly admire and respect and don't ask for said advice on public forums. present your music if you'd like and let people hear it but only take advice from people you actually give two shits about. nobody else's opinion really matters. if you guys are really into a local band here in atlanta then give them your demo and ask them for some constructive criticism.....they'll most likely love to help you guys out b/c you have tons of potential.

and one last thing for you guys........this board can be unyieldingly brutal to bands but everyone has actually tried to explain that you guys are pretty damn good....they just don't like the vocals. as far as this place goes thats really good. if you guys just sucked ass then everyone would just keep calling you names and never give you any compliments at all.

have you ever thought of just saying "sucks you hate the vocals but i'm glad you dig the music"?


and now to Matt Parsons,

i understand that you have tried to throw some compliments their way but for the most part you have belittled them with backhanded comments and jabs. it makes you sound like an arrogant asshole and it puts those guys on the defensive b/c you can't just tell them your opinion. you seem compelled to tell them about how everyone laughed at them at the "jenovah after-party".....whatever the hell that is. did you guys play a 99x show or win a grammy or something?

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Post by MikeLindgren » Mon October 29th, 2007, 6:06 am

As with Blaze, two centavos time...

I dig the style. It harkens to YJM's Rising Force. Overall, it's not something I haven't heard before, but I will definitely agree that the last thing the world needs is another Death-mertal type band. It's very retro, and that could be a good thing, from a certain point of view.

As a demo, I can at least see where you are attempting to go with it, and that's got to count for something. I typically don't dig the power-metal type vocals, but that's just how I go. I think Phil Anselmo is a chodus supremus too, and I'm very picky about what works in "aggressive" vocals. I think most DM vocalists need to take a lesson, because 9 times out of 10 it's lame, and strained. I definitely think metal, in a progressive sense, could definitely use a new direction in terms of vox that haven't already been there, and done that.

These are all just personal opinions, and are as subjective as taste in pizza toppings...

As for the recordings, I was under the impression that they were from a live show. Is that the case? What kind of Mic is justin using? Any EQ in his signal chain? Any preamp? Did he record in a vocal booth? Any FX on voice? Where'd you guys record at? What did you use to record? These things all make a difference.

It sounds like you guys are going for powerful vocals, in terms of the overall mix. If that's the case, they need to be cleaned up quite a bit. As far as Justin "sucking", I don't see that being the case. The old adage of not being able to polish a turd is not applicable in this case, I believe, because his style of vocals fit the music, and flow of what you're going for. It just needs some work. Comparing his vocals to stuff we've heard in that style is unfair, because from what I could hear there was little to no compression, no EQ'ing, no harmonies, no effects, etc. That's cool for a punk band, but you're not going for find James LeBrie's voice direct into the board. I garrangoddamntee you, despite being "clean" vocals, his shit is processed out the ass. Probably some serious outboard gear, even live for that sort of stuff.

There are a lot of things I could do to fix those in the studio, but it's a matter of what you guys are looking for, and who's recording you. I'll give Justin some credit, because if he just plugged in and sang, he did as good as any other vocalist in that style could ever hope for.

It's a dangerous game you guys are playing, posting in a public forum, and getting feedback, but at least you'll know who your audience is and isn't.

I'd shit my pants if anyone here buys the Arsenal Rain record when it comes out, or even wants a free copy, but I'm doing what I'm doing because I think everything in metal is so played out it's ridiculous. Unfortunately my target audience is latex-wearing bondage bitches. But, what the fuck, you guys are definitely bucking trend, and I can get down to that. I don't dig power-metal vocals, but I dig the fact that you're attempting something different. Overall, the music sounded really good, and your arrangements and instrumentation are great. The vocals are great, but that is with the assumption that you recorded a live show. If you multi-tracked, I could give you guys some tips on how to clean that stuff up. Overall, I think, as demos, the tracks are spot-on, because at least a listener can get an idea of what you're about. As a final product there is some serious gussy-ing up in order.

Matt Parsons has some cool tracks as well, but fuck his opinion, and fuck mine as well. You guys do what you like. Nobody's opinion matters but yours. Just be happy if you all can agree on a song. If you wanted to be popular you could always start an Avenged Sevenfold tribute band.

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Post by BlazeTSU » Mon October 29th, 2007, 7:20 am

i agree 100% with Mr. Lindgren

and i should point out that i think that Visions Of Enmity has tons of potential and that everything sounds spot on.......except the vocals. not because they suck, i really think that has everything in the world to due with the production and choice of melody. the melody will strengthen in time and production can be done better next time around.


keep up the work and don't let anyone deter you from doing exactly what you want to do.

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Post by nocommands » Mon October 29th, 2007, 11:42 am

some of the riffs in unwoken dream are pretty cool.... but it might be a good idea to listen to some other bands aside from iron maiden when getting ideas for rhythms. The sweeping sounds like your completely missing the first octave of the two octave arpeggios, and more like your playing phrases from a guitar exercise book as opposed to composing a melodic solo.. meh just what it sounds like to me. The vocals really just sound comical, in short like you're trying to do things you simply haven't mastered yet. There's potential but there's also a lot of work that needs to be done.

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Post by samsara » Mon October 29th, 2007, 3:06 pm

nocommands wrote:some of the riffs in unwoken dream are pretty cool.... but it might be a good idea to listen to some other bands aside from iron maiden when getting ideas for rhythms. The sweeping sounds like your completely missing the first octave of the two octave arpeggios, and more like your playing phrases from a guitar exercise book as opposed to composing a melodic solo.. meh just what it sounds like to me. The vocals really just sound comical, in short like you're trying to do things you simply haven't mastered yet. There's potential but there's also a lot of work that needs to be done.
Yeah I was heavily into Maiden when I wrote "Unwoken Dream" and "Hierarchy", so that influence is pretty evident there. "CBRO" and our other songs have a much more progressive edge and aren't quite as power metal-ish.

As far as the composition of the solos goes, when we record an actual demo I'll sit down with the guitar player and come up with something more substantial. Thanks,

Cameron
Last edited by samsara on Mon October 29th, 2007, 4:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by samsara » Mon October 29th, 2007, 3:19 pm

MikeLindgren wrote:As with Blaze, two centavos time...

I dig the style. It harkens to YJM's Rising Force. Overall, it's not something I haven't heard before, but I will definitely agree that the last thing the world needs is another Death-mertal type band. It's very retro, and that could be a good thing, from a certain point of view.

As a demo, I can at least see where you are attempting to go with it, and that's got to count for something. I typically don't dig the power-metal type vocals, but that's just how I go. I think Phil Anselmo is a chodus supremus too, and I'm very picky about what works in "aggressive" vocals. I think most DM vocalists need to take a lesson, because 9 times out of 10 it's lame, and strained. I definitely think metal, in a progressive sense, could definitely use a new direction in terms of vox that haven't already been there, and done that.

These are all just personal opinions, and are as subjective as taste in pizza toppings...

As for the recordings, I was under the impression that they were from a live show. Is that the case? What kind of Mic is justin using? Any EQ in his signal chain? Any preamp? Did he record in a vocal booth? Any FX on voice? Where'd you guys record at? What did you use to record? These things all make a difference.

It sounds like you guys are going for powerful vocals, in terms of the overall mix. If that's the case, they need to be cleaned up quite a bit. As far as Justin "sucking", I don't see that being the case. The old adage of not being able to polish a turd is not applicable in this case, I believe, because his style of vocals fit the music, and flow of what you're going for. It just needs some work. Comparing his vocals to stuff we've heard in that style is unfair, because from what I could hear there was little to no compression, no EQ'ing, no harmonies, no effects, etc. That's cool for a punk band, but you're not going for find James LeBrie's voice direct into the board. I garrangoddamntee you, despite being "clean" vocals, his shit is processed out the ass. Probably some serious outboard gear, even live for that sort of stuff.

There are a lot of things I could do to fix those in the studio, but it's a matter of what you guys are looking for, and who's recording you. I'll give Justin some credit, because if he just plugged in and sang, he did as good as any other vocalist in that style could ever hope for.

It's a dangerous game you guys are playing, posting in a public forum, and getting feedback, but at least you'll know who your audience is and isn't.

I'd shit my pants if anyone here buys the Arsenal Rain record when it comes out, or even wants a free copy, but I'm doing what I'm doing because I think everything in metal is so played out it's ridiculous. Unfortunately my target audience is latex-wearing bondage bitches. But, what the fuck, you guys are definitely bucking trend, and I can get down to that. I don't dig power-metal vocals, but I dig the fact that you're attempting something different. Overall, the music sounded really good, and your arrangements and instrumentation are great. The vocals are great, but that is with the assumption that you recorded a live show. If you multi-tracked, I could give you guys some tips on how to clean that stuff up. Overall, I think, as demos, the tracks are spot-on, because at least a listener can get an idea of what you're about. As a final product there is some serious gussy-ing up in order.

Matt Parsons has some cool tracks as well, but fuck his opinion, and fuck mine as well. You guys do what you like. Nobody's opinion matters but yours. Just be happy if you all can agree on a song. If you wanted to be popular you could always start an Avenged Sevenfold tribute band.
We recorded the 3 songs in my basement in a sort of makeshift, one room studio, but they were recorded as if we were playing a live show, everything was recorded in one take save a couple parts, like some vocals and maybe a guitar solo part, but basically we knew we weren’t prepared enough to record anything that we would be happy with as an actual multi track recording, so we just plugged in a tried to get a rough example of what we sound like for people to hear while we work our stuff up to something that might be more studio ready in the future. I was singing into an SM57 for the vocal parts, I have a MXL large diaphragm condenser but since these were live one take type of things I didn’t use it, I’ve heard you can blow those things out easily if there is to much volume for it to handle. I spent a lot of money on recording equipment, but its safe to say I really don’t know anything about mixing or any of the fine but important details of the process, nothing has any eq, compression, or effects on it, except a little reverb on some of the vocals and guitar parts. I definitely agree that with metal records unmastered recordings like these wont cut it for an album, I’m sure we'll have to go to a real studio to record some multi track, quality stuff, how to make things like vocals sound great is beyond my expertise, I have to much to worry about being a music major at UGA, although I’d like to learn sometime. That being said I really appreciate all the constructive criticism that the people in the last few messages gave to us. That was the point of the recordings after all. We'd love to hear any and all suggestions, after all we can choose to listen to them or not ourselves. Anything about getting a better recorded sound is also appreciated.

Justin

samsara
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Post by samsara » Mon October 29th, 2007, 10:28 pm

MikeLindgren wrote:As with Blaze, two centavos time...

I dig the style. It harkens to YJM's Rising Force. Overall, it's not something I haven't heard before, but I will definitely agree that the last thing the world needs is another Death-mertal type band. It's very retro, and that could be a good thing, from a certain point of view.

As a demo, I can at least see where you are attempting to go with it, and that's got to count for something. I typically don't dig the power-metal type vocals, but that's just how I go. I think Phil Anselmo is a chodus supremus too, and I'm very picky about what works in "aggressive" vocals. I think most DM vocalists need to take a lesson, because 9 times out of 10 it's lame, and strained. I definitely think metal, in a progressive sense, could definitely use a new direction in terms of vox that haven't already been there, and done that.

These are all just personal opinions, and are as subjective as taste in pizza toppings...

As for the recordings, I was under the impression that they were from a live show. Is that the case? What kind of Mic is justin using? Any EQ in his signal chain? Any preamp? Did he record in a vocal booth? Any FX on voice? Where'd you guys record at? What did you use to record? These things all make a difference.

It sounds like you guys are going for powerful vocals, in terms of the overall mix. If that's the case, they need to be cleaned up quite a bit. As far as Justin "sucking", I don't see that being the case. The old adage of not being able to polish a turd is not applicable in this case, I believe, because his style of vocals fit the music, and flow of what you're going for. It just needs some work. Comparing his vocals to stuff we've heard in that style is unfair, because from what I could hear there was little to no compression, no EQ'ing, no harmonies, no effects, etc. That's cool for a punk band, but you're not going for find James LeBrie's voice direct into the board. I garrangoddamntee you, despite being "clean" vocals, his shit is processed out the ass. Probably some serious outboard gear, even live for that sort of stuff.

There are a lot of things I could do to fix those in the studio, but it's a matter of what you guys are looking for, and who's recording you. I'll give Justin some credit, because if he just plugged in and sang, he did as good as any other vocalist in that style could ever hope for.

It's a dangerous game you guys are playing, posting in a public forum, and getting feedback, but at least you'll know who your audience is and isn't.

I'd shit my pants if anyone here buys the Arsenal Rain record when it comes out, or even wants a free copy, but I'm doing what I'm doing because I think everything in metal is so played out it's ridiculous. Unfortunately my target audience is latex-wearing bondage bitches. But, what the fuck, you guys are definitely bucking trend, and I can get down to that. I don't dig power-metal vocals, but I dig the fact that you're attempting something different. Overall, the music sounded really good, and your arrangements and instrumentation are great. The vocals are great, but that is with the assumption that you recorded a live show. If you multi-tracked, I could give you guys some tips on how to clean that stuff up. Overall, I think, as demos, the tracks are spot-on, because at least a listener can get an idea of what you're about. As a final product there is some serious gussy-ing up in order.

Matt Parsons has some cool tracks as well, but fuck his opinion, and fuck mine as well. You guys do what you like. Nobody's opinion matters but yours. Just be happy if you all can agree on a song. If you wanted to be popular you could always start an Avenged Sevenfold tribute band.
Did you say that your studio is free, but you don't track drums?

Matt Parsons
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Joined: Tue October 16th, 2007, 7:24 pm

Post by Matt Parsons » Tue October 30th, 2007, 12:08 am

For what its worth, when have I ever not supported SiE or Samsara? I got you guys onto shows every time I had the opportunity. I've voted for SiE in Battles of the Bands before. I've been to a lot of your shows. At all of the shows we played together, I offered to let you guys use my gear.

Hell, I showed all of your music to everyone at a party. I do everything I can to promote metal bands I think have potential. I'm seriously on your side.

Even after I'd criticized your music, I was trying to get you onto that SIDS Benefit concert ( Which you might get on after all ).

Like I've said many times, I think the music is good, but the vocals aren't, and it really detracts from the music. I can't say exactly why they're not good because I myself am not a good singer, and can't give you specific reasoning. However, I do know, as a fan of vocals in that style, that they need a LOT of work.

If I posted clips of myself singing, I'd expect much the same response.

I never claim or pretend to be some almighty God of the metal scene, or anything more than just a fan/musician in it. If you think I am, you're imagining something that simply isn't there.

Also, if you want a really great resource for recording, check out this forum: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap-151/ It's the official forum for Andy Sneap, a great metal producer. There's seriously a treasure trove of information hanging out there.

MikeLindgren
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Post by MikeLindgren » Tue October 30th, 2007, 6:31 am

Yeah, it's nothing impressive, but it's set up mostly for recording metal. After the start of the year it should grow rapidly. I still have three critical pieces of gear I'd need before I could record something stellar. I'm also thinking about building a vocal booth in the near future. If you guys may be interested, let me know. After January 1st, I should have the studio in rock-ready shape. I planned on getting some better vocal mics, etc. I'd like to think I have a few tricks up my sleeve to bang out some wicked vox. I'm actually postponing the recording of John's vocals for AR, since I'm willing to put it off to attempt something wild 'n' woolly.

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