Modern Black Metal (and its factionalism)

Blarg! · Post by **Blarg!** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 9:50 pm

Brian wrote:
Blarg! wrote:
Brian wrote:People who subscribe to the black metal lifestyle are cool and all. I have no problems with anyone choosing any subculture of anything to live in.

But isn't black metal one big sausage fest?
There are some all-women black metal bands.
But as for that..Most people I know have pretty normal girlfriends/wifes.
Well yeah I figured that black metallers have normal significant others. Really all I want to do is find an attractive girl who is into Carpathian Forest.

I figured, and it seems like all metal girls are slutty and dirty.

Techno girls are another story..besides the whole..ecstasy thing.

BlackRoija · Post by **BlackRoija** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:07 pm

My girl's favourite band could be Buckcherry and I wouldn't give a shit.

Post by **Brian** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:11 pm

I'm not saying I won't date a girl who isn't into metal...that would be quite stupid IMO. Music taste isn't that important a quality. But if I find out someone is into good music it automatically makes him/her more awesome, so of course I would like to find a girl into music about killing goats and eating babies.

Post by **Brian** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:21 pm

Anyway, back on topic.

Yes I agree that black metal is about the atmosphere and focuses on that much more than other forms of metal do. Songwriting is still a hugely important quality though! If I want music to be completely about atmosphere, I'll listen to ambient. At it's core, the most important aspect of black metal is songwriting. If that songwriting is used to convey the certain atmosphere the artist wants, cool. If not, I'll still enjoy it as long as the riffs are solid and the song is well-constructed.

Blarg! · Post by **Blarg!** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:27 pm

Songwriting is a important aspect if you wish to create pure and great black metal I would say, yes.

But then bands who aren't talented (like the hundreds of fake ambient myspace bands) do things like record a waterfall for 11 minutes and call it "Desolation prt. II"
...

Kurt · Post by **Kurt** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:31 pm

Brian wrote: If I want music to be completely about atmosphere, I'll listen to ambient.

A new thread, perhaps?

Post by **Brian** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:36 pm

Kurt wrote:
Brian wrote: If I want music to be completely about atmosphere, I'll listen to ambient.
A new thread, perhaps?

To be honest, that's really all I have to say about that subject. I don't listen to ambient nearly enough to be able to discuss it aside from "yeah, it's cool sometimes I guess" or something of that sort.

Blarg! · Post by **Blarg!** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:44 pm

Brian wrote:
Kurt wrote:
Brian wrote: If I want music to be completely about atmosphere, I'll listen to ambient.
A new thread, perhaps?
To be honest, that's really all I have to say about that subject. I don't listen to ambient nearly enough to be able to discuss it aside from "yeah, it's cool sometimes I guess" or something of that sort.

Alot of Black Metal has more atmosphere than most ambient..really

Kurt · Post by **Kurt** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:44 pm

Ahh, no new thread then.

But a tangent? Certainly:

Arcana, Inade, Herbst9, Profane Grace, Halo Manash, Aeoga, Zero Kama, Endura, Ain Soph, Lycia, (old) Mortiis, Popol Vuh (does all of Herzog's soundtracks), and, of course, Tangerine Dream.

samsara · Post by **samsara** » Wed June 18th, 2008, 10:49 pm

This is how I like my black metal:

<img src="http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4878/b ... otopu0.jpg">

Blarg! · Post by **Blarg!** » Thu June 19th, 2008, 12:31 am

samsara wrote:This is how I like my black metal:

<img src="http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4878/b ... otopu0.jpg">

Yeah I don't like Blasphemy very much

DeathfareDevil · Post by **DeathfareDevil** » Thu June 19th, 2008, 2:58 am

First of all, yes, I fervently agree that black metal has more atmosphere than dark ambient. I love old Mortiis as much as the next guy rubber-eared guy, but his music always seemed to be a deconstructed form of black metal -- cool, definitely, but not as effective.

Second, and I ask this question because of my own frustration: Can anyone name a black metal band that has gotten better over time? Obviously that's subjective, but so is everything else we're talking about. Musicians may become better players, become tighter as a unit, grow more unified in theory, etc. etc. But is there a band whose latest album is better than the one before that -- and the one before that -- and the one before that? I wish I could say some of my favorite bands deserve those superlatives, but ... I got nothing. Aurora Borealis, maybe, but it's sad that I can only come up with that.

Blarg! · Post by **Blarg!** » Thu June 19th, 2008, 3:15 am

DeathfareDevil wrote:
Second, and I ask this question because of my own frustration: Can anyone name a black metal band that has gotten better over time? Obviously that's subjective, but so is everything else we're talking about. Musicians may become better players, become tighter as a unit, grow more unified in theory, etc. etc. But is there a band whose latest album is better than the one before that -- and the one before that -- and the one before that? I wish I could say some of my favorite bands deserve those superlatives, but ... I got nothing. Aurora Borealis, maybe, but it's sad that I can only come up with that.

Windir!
Although you might not like it, try the Arntor album.

Hmm..
Judas Iscariot maybe.

JMincemoyer · Post by **JMincemoyer** » Thu June 19th, 2008, 6:47 am

I would say that Antaeus progressed, or "improved," through their three albums, although many like "De Principii Evangelikum" the best. "De Principii..." is excellent, but "Blood Libels" is a more diverse and complete album.

You could argue that Leviathan (US) has gotten better. If you have not heard "Massive Conspiracy..." Such an amazing album.

This begs a tangent for those that like progression in bands vs. those that prefer to hear the same album over and over again.

Regarding there being no connection between jazz and black metal. There is a clear connection on Deathspell Omega's "Fas..." If you listen to the album, the album has structure, but within the framework of the songs, the songs are seemingly without form. This is especially true of the drums, which if you listen to jazz you will understand what I mean.

JMincemoyer · Post by **JMincemoyer** » Thu June 19th, 2008, 6:58 am

I agree with the over-orchestration of the "Dimmu" or atmospheric bands. Atmosphere is all well and good, but when it approaches a "carnival" feel it immediately ruins the feeling. Classic example, the keyboard work on Ozzy's early releases. Excellent use of simple, sparse keyboards heightened the atmosphere wonderfully. If things get too convoluted atmosphere dies.

I think a lot of this has to do with the production. The "Dimmu" bands all feature pristine productions. Imagine Dimmu Borgir with an old, creaky Hammond organ or composing music with a pipe organ? That would most certainly make a difference, but then again it comes back to their songwriting skills (or lack thereof).

Simple really is the most effective. Burzum is the best example of this. Then Emperor "spoiled" everything for everyone--in a good way. The initial rush of "Ye Entrancemperium" is without equal...

AtlantaMetal

Modern Black Metal (and its factionalism)

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