Modern Black Metal (and its factionalism)

[stalindrummer]

i don't..........anybody gonna cry about it?.........nope i didn't think so. whiney bitches

[Mordred]

I can't tell you how many countless interviews I've seen where these "founding fathers" have said they weren't Satanic, and didn't give a fuck about being Satanic.

Where are these interviews? You haven't shown us any interviews to confirm your claims.

[Blarg!]

I can't tell you how many countless interviews I've seen where these "founding fathers" have said they weren't Satanic, and didn't give a fuck about being Satanic.

Where are these interviews? You haven't shown us any interviews to confirm your claims.

and beyond that, nobody cares enough about not being satanic to use it in argument.

[Vhyle]

i don't..........anybody gonna cry about it?.........nope i didn't think so. whiney bitches

Noooooooooooooooo!!! *raises fist in the air*

[anathematized_one]

I would like to know why you think I am uneducated about black metal. I've not said anything false about it. If you do two seconds of research, you'll find all that I said is true.

No...it really isn't all true. You said "what is wrong with evolving and making clear, decipherable music?" That implies that black metal, as a genre, hasn't evolved, which is flat out bullshit. Compare your beloved first wave bands to even the second wave bands -- very different sounds. Now compare the second wave bands to bands putting out music today, like Deathspell Omega, Belenos, and Nachtmystium. Once again, very different sounds. I could go on and on namedropping bands, but that really isn't the point. The point is that black metal has evolved, just as much as any other genre of metal. In fact, I'd say that it's changed more than power metal, progressive metal, doom metal, and thrash metal.

But of course, all of those genres suck and aren't worthy of my listening attention, because a genre needs to completely reinvent itself to be worthwhile.

Plenty of bands have clear production. A good bit of them are held in high regard within black metal communities. It might have the same quality as the latest Avril single, but I think we'd all agree that something like that would detract from the music.

As for not becoming more technical -- black metal isn't supposed to be a technical genre. Are you going to bash drone too because it hasn't become more technical? What about power metal? I still hear the same sweeping, tapping, and double bass that the early power metal bands were doing. And hell, while we're at it, what about punk rock? Indie rock? Hip-hop? None of those have become more technical. And many people would say that the best music in those genres was created decades ago. Doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile.

And really, who gives a fuck if it's a gimmick? GWAR, Dragonforce, Tenacious D, and Spinal Tap are all gimmick bands. And if you don't like Spinal Tap, you're a Communist.

I never said black metal hasn't evolved. I said most people hate the bands that have evolved in black metal.

I never bashed the kvlt black metal. And there you go again saying "black metal isn't supposed to be technical." IN what fucking rule book does it say black metal can't be technical?

[anathematized_one]

I can't tell you how many countless interviews I've seen where these "founding fathers" have said they weren't Satanic, and didn't give a fuck about being Satanic.

Where are these interviews? You haven't shown us any interviews to confirm your claims.

I'll go find them and post them.

[BlazeTSU]

i've seen a lot of interviews with "founding fathers" of black metal where they said that they didn't believe in satan but did however hold traditional satanic views which have nothing to do with the devil himself.


and as far as technical goes......immortal has been putting out technical and proficeint black metal for a long time now. Emperor set the bar quite high over a decade ago with IX Equilibrium and Promethues as well. and lets not forget about Celtic Frost and "To Mega Therion"......it might not be the most amazingly played album on the planet but its hard not to categorize it as maybe not a technical revolution but a creative revolution in the black metal community.

i think black metal as a whole has evolved a lot or we wouldn't have this thread about the many different faces of the genre.





*i must admit that i haven't fully read the thread but skimmed it and found a few points i thought were relevant.

[anathematized_one]

Note what Cronos says in the first scene and what Mortiis says in the second scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR66i0gW8WE

"It was just a story thing, just like the Satanism" is the key thing to take out of this interview with Quarthon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7crQy2d ... re=related

There are more videos that were removed. I'll find others later when I get some more time, right now I have to go eat lunch and then I have band practice.

[Brian]

I would like to know why you think I am uneducated about black metal. I've not said anything false about it. If you do two seconds of research, you'll find all that I said is true.

No...it really isn't all true. You said "what is wrong with evolving and making clear, decipherable music?" That implies that black metal, as a genre, hasn't evolved, which is flat out bullshit. Compare your beloved first wave bands to even the second wave bands -- very different sounds. Now compare the second wave bands to bands putting out music today, like Deathspell Omega, Belenos, and Nachtmystium. Once again, very different sounds. I could go on and on namedropping bands, but that really isn't the point. The point is that black metal has evolved, just as much as any other genre of metal. In fact, I'd say that it's changed more than power metal, progressive metal, doom metal, and thrash metal.

But of course, all of those genres suck and aren't worthy of my listening attention, because a genre needs to completely reinvent itself to be worthwhile.

Plenty of bands have clear production. A good bit of them are held in high regard within black metal communities. It might have the same quality as the latest Avril single, but I think we'd all agree that something like that would detract from the music.

As for not becoming more technical -- black metal isn't supposed to be a technical genre. Are you going to bash drone too because it hasn't become more technical? What about power metal? I still hear the same sweeping, tapping, and double bass that the early power metal bands were doing. And hell, while we're at it, what about punk rock? Indie rock? Hip-hop? None of those have become more technical. And many people would say that the best music in those genres was created decades ago. Doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile.

And really, who gives a fuck if it's a gimmick? GWAR, Dragonforce, Tenacious D, and Spinal Tap are all gimmick bands. And if you don't like Spinal Tap, you're a Communist.

I never said black metal hasn't evolved. I said most people hate the bands that have evolved in black metal.

I never bashed the kvlt black metal. And there you go again saying "black metal isn't supposed to be technical." IN what fucking rule book does it say black metal can't be technical?

Nobody said it can't be technical. Like Blaze said, Immortal is pretty technical, and I love Immortal. But it's all about the aesthetic. Black metal relies more on song composition rather than instrumental ability, unlike a lot of tech-death and progressive metal. So nobody is saying that BM musicians suck at their instruments and can't play technically, but as a whole the genre focuses on more important aspects of the song. Tech-death gets boring after a while because for the most part it's just a big pissing contest between the musicians for who can play the best, but not necessarily write the best songs. Black metal tends to not do this.

[BlazeTSU]

and another thing about technicality in black metal.......i don't think its a lack of talent but just a matter of taste. Darkthrone started out as a fairly technical death metal band(see Soulside Journey......which was also produced fairly good for what it was) but decided to change styles to a more raw, punkish black metal sound. and kudos to'em man.....they are a much better raw black metal band then they were a technical death metal band.

[Mordred]

These people I'm talking about are from the first second wave black metal bands, like Darkthrone, Mayhem, etc

Where are your interviews to justify this claim?

[ScreamBloodyGore]

These people I'm talking about are from the first second wave black metal bands, like Darkthrone, Mayhem, etc

Where are your interviews to justify this claim?

THREADS SO WILD WE'RE BRINGING IN NEW USERS SUMMER VACION '09!WOO

[anathematized_one]

These people I'm talking about are from the first second wave black metal bands, like Darkthrone, Mayhem, etc

Where are your interviews to justify this claim?

I had one saved on YouTube but it got taken down.

I can't even find videos or interviews that back up the widely known fact that none of the guys in Venom are satanists.

People don't like to share these videos or even give these interviews because it'll hurt the sacred image of black metal.

It took me forever just to find that one of Quarthon that I already posted where he said that the satanic shit in early Bathory was JUST A STORY.

[Mike]

There is a new (extremely gay) form of Black Metal that incorporates rock-n-roll into it..you all know of it, Darkthrone probably leads this group.

Holy mother of wrong! Black-and-roll kicks ass! I can't help but headbang every time I hear an I song.

I just wanted to say the I is an amazing band and there should be more like them. Ice Dale's playing in Enslaved is certainly like this as he's in both bands.

[Brian]

The thread was worth great for the first 4 or 5 pages. No need to feel apologetic for it.