American support of Israel.

[Death2all]

Yes ProstheticHead12 I agree with you and Paul you two put in words better than I do.

Just wait till a nuke goes off here in America the same morons that protest the war will be up in arms asking why America stood by and let it happen. You can't make these people happy they love to hate America.

You want to hear rational thinking try this
http://www.wgst.com/main.html

[Holiday Rambler]

If there are terrorists in Guantanamo with information about future terrorist attacks I think we should torture them to get it.

And I disagree. That's against the rules we've set as a nation, and as part of the international, civilized community. That subscribes to the same animalistic thinking you are railing against.

If someone wants to kill you, and has the plans and means to do so, are you just going to sit there and take it? No, you kill them first.

Uh, I have never encountered that on a personal level, and if I had, I would take the appropriate, logical and lawful steps to bring the situation to an end.

You're probably talking about "terrorists" "wanting" to "kill" "Americans" in the most general sense, and that is half your problem. Define it for me. And while you're at it, define it for the US government. You think we're in Iraq with some magical terrorist-meter that points us in the direction of people that have, at one point or another, conspired to "commit terror" or have intentions to "kill Americans." I think you need to take your head out of your ass. There is no such apparatus. We rely on stilted, word-of-mouth intelligence in Iraq, and despite those who think our media only shows "the bad stuff" the fact is that we're killing a lot more than "suspected terrorists" in Iraq. Look at the figures sometime, read the first-hand accounts sometime.

The fact is that when you, as an American citizen and voter, blindly accept the incredibly vague and woefully misleading idea that we are "in Iraq to kill people that would kill us first if they had the chance" you are A) an idiot and B) giving carte blanche to the sociopaths in our government to carry out their oil heist at the expense of human lives, human lives that will never be given any sort of trial, interrogation, or second of "justice" as we know it.

When was the last successful negotiation with a terrorist? When has diplomacy worked with terrorists?

I have to ask, how many civilians are worth the life of what you consider a terrorist? What do you think the ratio is? How good of a job are we doing sniffing out terror when there are MULTIPLE DAILY suicide bombings and explosions going on, 3+ years after we "accomplished" the "mission"? And when there are terror attacks going on in other parts of the world? Are we deterring potential terrorists? Or are we creating new ones every day?

It's like watching a sports team lose over and over, but telling yourself that the league is stronger because of it. Or "hey, some guys on this team are really well paid, even though our record is 2-51!"

Except, you know, the whole human lives part instead of bats and balls.

[Holiday Rambler]

I don't agree with Holiday Rambler or Necronomicon and there paranoid delusional rhetoric.

Just wait till a nuke goes off here in America the same morons that protest the war will be up in arms asking why America stood by and let it happen. You can't make these people happy they love to hate America.

Unreal. Go back to class.

[NeuroNomicon]

...actually it's NEURO NOMICON = "Book of the Mind".

As far as what has been said, it is correct.

Al Qaeda = The 'base, as in "database". As in, a list of contacts the CIA used.

The pretext for war is that there is a vast array of sleeper cells all working in tandem against us. The reality of this scenario is less grandiose. Truth be told, the idea of an army of jihadists waiting in dark shadows to jump out at us is absurd. There are small, disconnected groups who hate the US's foreign policies. In order to unite the general populace into support of an absurd unilateral action into the Middle Eastern theatre, the threat of Osama Bin Laden masterminding a miltary-revolutionary group known as "Al Qaeda" was created in order to have a definitive "enemy" to amass against.

Osama Bin Laden is actually "Tim Osman". The 'base is the list of CIA assets, aka the Mujahadeen, that was an illegal network to funnel funds and arms via the CIA into Afghanistan to combat the Soviets.

All this doesn't discount that religious extremism is a reality. But the reality of our sandy adventures across the Atlantic is that we're there representing corporate interests, not the American peoples'.

Our old vocalist left to enlist, and is currently a US Army Special Forces operative. Don't question our allegience to our troops. We just don't want to see good people as fodder, getting waxed to protect some corporation's bottom line.

If we were kicking N. Korea's teeth down its throat, you wouldn't hear a nugget of bitching on our part. The problem is, N. Korea is a threat not only to the entire Asian theatre, but to the United States and its allies as well. The difference is that attacking, and toppling "Dear Leader's" regime doesn't serve US-based corporate interests quite like seizing petro-assets does.

[soulvoid]

I see everyone talking about other countries and terrorism. What about Cuba they are only 90 miles away from the US and there people are horribly mistreated. Cuba is still run by a mass murdering communist. Why haven't they been liberated? Why? This guy has been in power since 1959 will remain in power until he dies (painfully I hope). So where is justice? Where is our caring goverment? Hiding behind there own laws , because they agreed to leave Cuba alone. However I bet if Cuba offered OIL in MASS we would have been there and this communist asshole would have been killed YEARS ago. But hey why don't we just allow Cuban people amnesty forever because we know how bad he treats his own people. Which is fine with me, Cubans are a great bunch of people from my own expierence. However they wouldn't wanna leave Cuba if this asshole would die...Someone whether it be the USA or another country , someone needs to help this beautiful country rebuild after he either dies , or we help liberate them.

[ProstheticHead12]

Just to clarify, mainly for Holiday Rambler:

I did not support going to war in Iraq. I think we did and still do have bigger fish to fry. I do think we need to stick around as long as need be to stop the insurgets. They are the ones killing innocent civilians and American troops with their bombs. More and more Iraqi battalions and intellegence are the ones solving the problems there. Apparently everyone has reports and first hand accounts of us doing badly and good at the same time in Iraq. When I am talking about killing terrorists I mean all over the world, not just Iraq. I don't mean some ambiguous definition, I mean organized cells or groups. Hezbollah and the recent group from in the Indian train bombings included. Organized groups with the firepower to kill innocent people in the name of whatever cause they're supporting. I don't know how well our government is doing in stopping them, but if continued progress in Iraq and the killing of Zarqawi are any indication we're doing a good job. Many successfully thwarted attacks will go unreported as we continue to hunt down the groups responsible. Not everything we do is great, but instead of calling me an idiot perhaps you could offer a better solution. Voting out the people currently in office is step one and I'm already with you on that one.

[Holiday Rambler]

When I am talking about killing terrorists I mean all over the world, not just Iraq. I don't mean some ambiguous definition, I mean organized cells or groups. Hezbollah and the recent group from in the Indian train bombings included.

Hezbollah is, at least in Lebanon, a nationally-recognized political group that has something like 15 seats in the Lebanese government, has a large civilian wing that runs aspects of internal education, hospitals, and other critical parts of the social and economic strata. Are we supposed to storm Lebanon's parliament and kill these fuckers, because they have a political and boundary dispute with Israel? Because we classify them as terrorists? That's silly.

I just think you'd be better off looking deeper into the issue of who is in the business of classifying "terror" and for what reasons, instead of subscribing to the black/white good/evil school of thought.

[Strangler]

I fucking love U.S. propaganda. They will call anything a terror act but what about their invasion of Iraq? To me, U.S. is a terrorist in this situation and world is not doing shit to prevent this from happening. *clap clap*

the difference is in the motives. saddam is a proven killer. our goal was to prevent him from killing more innocent people and i think we should've bombed his ass a long time ago. the UN wasted time with a bunch of resolutions but no actions. our goal was not to disrupt and destroy iraq, but to remove saddam from power and institute a democracy. obviously we could've done a better job, but we're still there trying to create a peaceful iraq. find me a terrorist that stuck around after the bombing to help clean up. oh, wait, they're all a bunch of cowards.

No, no, no. Your goal was to get rid of those "weapons of mass destruction". Remember?

Yep. Which were reported to be in Iraq by the Brits, specifically MI-6. Unfortunately, the CIA didn't have the assets in place to verify them (Clinton can take some blame for underfunding the CIA, but it wouldn't have been easy to have agents in place even with good funding).

Why do you think Tony Blair -- who ideologically wasn't even close to Bush or the GOP, he's Labour -- has been the only global leader to fully sign on for the Iraq War? Hint: it was his intel that got us into it in the first place.

Blaming some other country for your intelligence "screw up"? I don't think it was a screw up. This was planned. Junior had to finish his father's job.

Pakistan.

Even you know where he is? Top "terrorist" not captured yet? OMG.

Abject horseshit. Well done, dope.

The 4th of July is a great holiday here.... Fireworks, cookouts....and a lot of US servicemen home on leave from Iraq. I spoke to a lot of them, and every last one of them says that the Iraq you see and hear about in the media -- which publishes bad news because, let's face it, bad news sells, and good news doesn't -- is far different from the "real" Iraq. Rebuilding, new construction, more openness..... Sure, it's no picnic in the 'hot zones,' but there are entire regions/provinces/satrapies/whatever of Iraq that are much better off without Saddam. If you aren't sure, ask any Kurd.

There's no order in Iraq right now. People die daily. Criminals are overrunning the country. Oh, the invaders too. I'm pretty sure that the soldiers lived there during Saddam's regime and knew how life was back then. Once again, fuck U.S.'s so called "liberation".

As for the Hezbollah/Israel mess..... It won't be allowed to escalate beyond the region. (Yep, it's kinda handy that the G8 meeting in Russia is happening right now.) There is no long-term political solution to the mess, but there might be a religious one. It would require an outside intermediary and some force of arms. Hint: Tom Clancy might have gotten it right.

Please, share with us Mr. Clancy's solution to the problem.

[Death2all]

WREKage-Paul wrote:
Strangler wrote:
ProstheticHead12 wrote:
Strangler wrote:
I fucking love U.S. propaganda. They will call anything a terror act but what about their invasion of Iraq? To me, U.S. is a terrorist in this situation and world is not doing shit to prevent this from happening. *clap clap*


the difference is in the motives. saddam is a proven killer. our goal was to prevent him from killing more innocent people and i think we should've bombed his ass a long time ago. the UN wasted time with a bunch of resolutions but no actions. our goal was not to disrupt and destroy iraq, but to remove saddam from power and institute a democracy. obviously we could've done a better job, but we're still there trying to create a peaceful iraq. find me a terrorist that stuck around after the bombing to help clean up. oh, wait, they're all a bunch of cowards.


No, no, no. Your goal was to get rid of those "weapons of mass destruction". Remember?



Yep. Which were reported to be in Iraq by the Brits, specifically MI-6. Unfortunately, the CIA didn't have the assets in place to verify them (Clinton can take some blame for underfunding the CIA, but it wouldn't have been easy to have agents in place even with good funding).

Why do you think Tony Blair -- who ideologically wasn't even close to Bush or the GOP, he's Labour -- has been the only global leader to fully sign on for the Iraq War? Hint: it was his intel that got us into it in the first place.


Blaming some other country for your intelligence "screw up"? I don't think it was a screw up. This was planned. Junior had to finish his father's job.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

[Holiday Rambler]

Time to consider your source, bro.

When the only "news organization" jumping all over "information" like that is Fox, you should go ahead and consider it about as credible as The Onion.

[Death2all]

So if it had been CNN it would be a different story bro? See thats the problem with people like you the facts are there but you refuse to listen.

[lifesadream]

The war in Iraq is based on lies. We were led to believe that we were in Iminent danger of being attacked by Iraq. The Downing street Memo and the proven forged document from Niger show the Bush administration lied about the war. They kept changing the reason for why we are there. The US will never leave and will expand as it now seems very soon into Iran. They arent building temporary bases in Iraq, they are permanent. The Bush administration is using 9/11 to erode our freedoms and send us more and more into a police state.
Read some of the quotes in this article from the liars in the Bush administration
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WMDlies.html
The bottom line is Sadaam did not have WMD's . It was concluded that he hadnt had them since the early 90's and whatever he did have didnt work and was abandened.
And everyone always blames Clinton for this and that. Clinton and Bush and whoever is the next president will do the same thing. They do not have our interests in mind. They are part of a global empire, one world gov't built on power and greed and we are nothing more then cattle. Its amazing that so many people blame Clinton for Bin Laden. Bin Laden was a CIA asset for most of his life. Al Qaeda was funded and trained by the US gov't and that can not be denied.

Google search- Operation Northwoods and Rex-84 and you will easily see how our gov't really does business.

Operation Northwoods-govt sponsored terrorism to blame it on their enemies. Declassified documents.

Holiday Rambler and Strangler are on the money here.

[Death2all]

http://www.internet-grocer.net/weapons.htm

[Holiday Rambler]

So if it had been CNN it would be a different story bro? See thats the problem with people like you the facts are there but you refuse to listen.

No, because if CNN had reported it, it would have been major news across all spectrums of the media. They aren't perfect, but they don't have a quarter of the agenda the FOX has. The work they do also resembles something called "journalism" you may have heard about, unlike your pals Shepard Smith & co.

Read up sometime:

http://newsbyus.com/more.php?id=4515_0_1_0_M
http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/20 ... 192926/671
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/ ... for_itself

[lifesadream]

that all has been proven to be false. We all know no wmd's have been found. The President has even said that no WMD's have been found, so that link that you just posted is full of misinformation. Its run by a Neo-Con group out to discredit people who have already exposed the truth. I cant believe you try to use that as any kind of proof of what you are trying to prove. Thats almost sad.

The US funded and Trained Al Qaeda The Bush family did business with the Taliban for years and have had Taliban leaders in Texas when Bush was Governor there.
Bin Laden was a CIA asset for a long time
Haliburton did make a fortune in Iraq since they got all the no-bid contracts
And the whole argument of the Left says this and the left says that is so stupid and really old and not many people do buy that anymore. I am not left or Right I am into Freedom through the constitution and the Bill or Rights.

I am still reading some of the stuff on that link and its absolutly funny that anyone would believe such outright lies.