Musical creativity/originality

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BoB
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Post by BoB » Fri July 2nd, 2004, 9:49 am

I think music has been damn stagnant for awhile. Can we expect anything really new and creative or do all we have to look forward to is blending of existing styles? It seemed like back in the 80's there was a boom of new sounding music - metal, new wave, techno, etc. I haven't seen much of anything truly new since then... I've seen 1) people go faster 2) blending of existing styles 3) use of technology to make new sounds and annoyingly perfect drum patterns.

It really bothers me how people have to label everything. Once you do that you're fucked in a rut. The most hilarious example is the genre of "Progressive metal". Ok, it may have been 'progressive' 15 years ago but to fit in the genre you pretty much have to have a similar sound. Where's the progression in that???

So where can we go from here?

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Post by Greg » Fri July 2nd, 2004, 11:53 am

Metal seems to be stagnant by its very nature. I think pretty much every conceivable riff and drum pattern has been written by now in the last 20+ years, it's a question of whether or not new combinations of old riffs sound interesting or not. Then, when one band finds something that works, you find a million different (and worse) knockoff bands that get signed to ride that band's coattails in the hopes of ringing up a few more album sales. Look at all the crappy hardcore/metal blend bands popping up right now - you can thank bands like Shadows Fall, Lamb Of God, and Killswitch Engage for them being around.

But like I said, those three bands are really good and have fresh new takes on an old sound. They've got "it", whatever "it" is that makes a band click for the audience they make music for. The best we have now is when a new band improves on an old sound, every now and then a band comes along that sounds different from everything else (Opeth comes to mind right off the top of my head) and just wows everyone in the scene. Then the knockoffs come, the original band gets labelled as old and sellouts when they make an album that tries to stay ahead of the curve, and the cycle continues. This has happened to pretty much every big-name American metal band (think Pantera, Slayer, Metallica), and the only bands it doesn't happen to are the ones like Cannibal Corpse and Deicide, who just re-release the exact same album with a different name every year.

We're at the point now where we've pretty much heard it all before, but if it's something really good I don't mind hearing it again.

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Post by withered » Fri July 2nd, 2004, 2:04 pm

Those are all good points and I too would like to see some creativity in the world of metal. I must admit that even with my band, we are "paying homage" to good metal where we can. Especially unsung heros like all the old underground black metal bands and grindcore bands. I like to do this semi-intentionally for nostalgia because most metal has been so bland and empty over the past 10 years or so. Nu Metal killed most of what was good out there. Sometimes I feel like we have to gain back ground that was lost. Luckily, people seem to be getting tired of the simple/boring stuff finally and some better metal is emerging. I have to admit that even the rash of metalcore bands out now is a fresh breath of air compared to the godsmacks, mudvaynes, mudsmacks, and who the hell ever else made money by scratching some records on top of a rehashed dave lombardo drum part. I think the bar of musicianship is raising as well so hopefully some good things are to come soon. Mastodon is a pretty good example of something "different" coming along.

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Post by Fn Dan » Fri July 2nd, 2004, 5:33 pm

I think what Greg and Mike said summed it up pretty well. I would like to point out though, however, that while nu-metal is boring because of its simplicity, music can be just as boring because of its complexity. How many times have you heard a band that was just too talented for its own good? The riffs are too complicated, too many tempo changes, just no "groove" (that's the only word I can describe what I'm thinking of). Many would argue that a band like Opeth treads lightly on the line of being too complex. What sounds best to the ear, lies somewhere in the middle between complex and simple. My two cents anyway.

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Post by VibrationsOfDoom » Fri July 2nd, 2004, 8:06 pm

Well, there's always doom metal... :> When a doom metal band comes out (like My Dying Bride, doom/death like Shape Of Despair, Esoteric, Draconian, etc.) they are usually ALWAYS of high quality but the doom metal genre doesn't pump out like a ton of bands... And there's enough freshness and originality to keep this genre going.

I get stuff from all over the world pretty much to review... You'd be surprised what bands in other countries are doing these days... Maybe I need to bring some of this down to WREKage for you guys. New Moonsorrow, new Finntroll, newest Loits, the new stuff on Folter Records is a good blend of folkish black metal, like Trimonium, Skyforger, Orc, etc... Anyway, I'll stop rambling for now... Gotta get ready to go.

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Post by Metalfreak » Fri July 2nd, 2004, 8:33 pm

Finntroll is awesome! I got their new album, Nattfodd, and it kills! I like folk black metal. I'd have to say that there are alot of creative bands out there but hardly any original bands because you're right, they are just combining styles. That's just my opinion. yeah, Shadows Fall is a great band.
They had you do a drug test and the forgot to test for drugs???

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Post by BoB » Mon July 5th, 2004, 12:13 pm

See, I realize that most every riff has been played, most drum patterns played, etc. Those building blocks have been arranged in about every possible combination. What I'm talking about is coming up with new building blocks. If that's possible, the output may be something that doesn't get called 'metal' - so what.

Again, the fact that humans have the tendency to label and categorize everything limits creativity. The introduction of new things is usually met with resistance too. Metal in the 80s was pretty much all underground. It was looked at as rebelious noise not at all understood by the mainstream. Now, music that was considered underground, is heard in video games and car commercials. I'm talking about death metal style vocals and all (a Scion car tv commercial).

So while I whole heartidly embrace what's been done and enjoy new bands refining that, I'm also hungry for something new. What's next???

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Post by TheKshatriya » Mon July 5th, 2004, 4:34 pm

I think there is always room to be creative in metal and in all music.

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Post by TheKshatriya » Mon July 5th, 2004, 4:40 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Fn Dan+Jul 2 2004, 05:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Fn Dan &#064; Jul 2 2004, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think what Greg and Mike said summed it up pretty well.&nbsp; I would like to point out though, however, that while nu-metal is boring because of its simplicity, music can be just as boring because of its complexity.&nbsp; How many times have you heard a band that was just too talented for its own good?&nbsp; The riffs are too complicated, too many tempo changes, just no "groove" (that's the only word I can describe what I'm thinking of).&nbsp; Many would argue that a band like Opeth treads lightly on the line of being too complex.&nbsp; What sounds best to the ear, lies somewhere in the middle between complex and simple.&nbsp; My two cents anyway.
[/quote]

I dont really think Opeth is that complex. But also, nu metal is very simple, but that doesnt always make it bad. Look at death metal bands like Vader, they arnt complex or technical at all, but they're still pretty damn good (in my opinion any way :) ) And then there is a band like The number twelve looks like you and mannequin eye surveillance who are extrememly technical and complex, but are still really amazing

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Mon July 5th, 2004, 6:52 pm

Yeah, bob and greg summed it up pretty good....what sucks tho, is alot of the bands you guys are talking about (Opeth, Vader, etc) , have just gone down in quality lately.Like, i really enjoyed My Arms Your Hearse,im a big Opeth fan, but now we get stuff like Deliverance, and i mean, its a good album, but it sounds a little too produced , a little too perfect, too...i dunno, digital.And Vader's a great band too, but i just HATED Revelations, it sounded like nu-metal....i hated it, and i doubt they'll come out with something different next :( . Like bob said, i think every concievable riff has been made, and in metal , most bands sound the same ,same riffs, same lyrics, same vox, same everything, even bands like Opeth, whatever genra they are, opeth metal :lol: ,pretty soon all their songs are gonna sound the same, that style they have, how many more riffs can they come up with before they start putting the same album out? its very rare nowadays that youll find a new, original band, because everything else sounds the same, for a band to be original nowadays ,theyll have to really have their own style, like opeth has, but soon, all the possible styles and stuff, all the new possible sounds will have been taken, and the new , "original" bands will start to sound the same, then what're we gonna do? I think this dillema is present in every genra of music, hopefully by the time music kills itself, we will have evolved into heartless beings with no need for music :unsure: (invasion of the body snatchers anyone?) well, that was a nice rant, im out...good times!

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Mon July 5th, 2004, 10:20 pm

This is cruel, but I want to take a child from birth and never expose them to any noise at all from the outside world and place them in a soundproof room with every instrument known (and materials to make new ones) with nothing else to do for his entire life. I think if someone did that as an experiment, not only would it drive the person to insanity, it would create a completely new genre.

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Wed July 7th, 2004, 5:27 pm

Jake you are one sick son of a bitch :o

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Post by fukrholestkhed » Thu July 8th, 2004, 3:12 am

i think neurosis is one band that has constantly evolved and reinvented themselves and never sold themselves short, equally deep and simple, and almost 20 years experience...
play your gloom axe

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Post by WuDi, w/o competition » Thu July 8th, 2004, 2:20 pm

What...?
I think experimenting on children is a good idea...
I would certainly trust products a lot more if they were tested on humans. Especially children, being weak and easily hurt.
If you accept entropy--big "boo/scary/smart guy" word--and recognize that absolutely everything is breaking down and repeating itself in endless shortening cycles, then realize that you don't have to worry about it, because by the time grindcore--ala Gorgasm and shit like that--is mainstream accepted, you'll be long dead, it's not that big a deal.

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Thu July 8th, 2004, 2:42 pm

Gorgasm isn't grindcore :lol:

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