Visions of Enmity

[samsara]

I know most of you probably don't listen to this style all that much, but if you could give these songs a listen, it would be much appreciated. All three of them were basically done live in the studio in one take, so obviously there are some issues, but overall they sound pretty good.

www.myspace.com/visionsofenmity

Thanks.

[ProstheticHead12]

got no problem with the style, but the execution could use some work.

[samsara]

got no problem with the style, but the execution could use some work.

Point taken.

[Matt Parsons]

Justin Jackson really needs to stop singing.

[Matt]

Justin Jackson really needs to stop singing.

for real....i also agree with prosthetichead12 but this would be overall way better without those vocals, yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[samsara]

Justin Jackson really needs to stop singing.

Where is the problem? I hear nothing that's off pitch, and I don't hear any problems with the tone. Please explain.

[Matt Parsons]

His singing is just a joke. After the Jenovah show, I saw that you had posted new demos and showed them to everyone at the after-party.

EVERYONE was laughing.

I'm not trying to insult you guys, but he's just a bad singer. I suck ASS at clean singing like that, which is exactly why I don't do it.

[samsara]

His singing is just a joke. After the Jenovah show, I saw that you had posted new demos and showed them to everyone at the after-party.

EVERYONE was laughing.

I'm not trying to insult you guys, but he's just a bad singer. I suck ASS at clean singing like that, which is exactly why I don't do it.

You've still yet to explain what the fuck you mean.

Let's get some wisdom from the almighty Matt Parsons. Come on.

[Matt Parsons]

Why don't you question the other Matt:

for real....i also agree with prosthetichead12 but this would be overall way better without those vocals, yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or the dozen other people I listened to this stuff with?

Or any number of people who agree with me?

I don't have anything against Justin, he's a cool guy. He's a good guitarist. But he's simply not a good vocalist.

[Matt]

i guess im not the almighty although i dont know who the fuck either you are in person, but for the record, that justin jackson vocalist is beyond horrible, there is absolutely nothing worthwhile about his vocals, they are infact some of the worst i have ever heard, musically you guys have something going, something thats not really my style but i give you credit for doing what you like, but remember you asked for feedback, neither me or the "almighty" might not be able to write an essay with a clear cut explaination on why the vocals suck, but trust me, THEY DO!!!!!!!!!!!

[samsara]

Why don't you question the other Matt:

for real....i also agree with prosthetichead12 but this would be overall way better without those vocals, yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or the dozen other people I listened to this stuff with?

Or any number of people who agree with me?

I don't have anything against Justin, he's a cool guy. He's a good guitarist. But he's simply not a good vocalist.

Well it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's kind of retarded when you show it to other people and let them laugh at it, but then can't offer any other explanation as to why you hold that opinion.

You guys can listen to whatever you want to, but my band is catering to fans of traditional metal. It wouldn't make any sense for you, your band, or any other "extreme metal" fans to like the vocals because they're a completely different style. It doesn't bother us at all that you don't like them, I just wanted some kind of reason as to why you feel the need to get on the damn internet and talk a bunch of shit about it.

Cameron

P.S.

Well I’d just like to step in and basically reiterate what Cameron said, I don’t give a flying shit what any death metal, or whatever its called now, (I don’t really follow all the genres they get to be ridiculous) say about my vocals, it is a very different style, I know my vocals are far from perfect as of yet, they are very much a work in progress, as is any instrument that's just being learned, I sure as hell didn’t just pick up a guitar and know how to play it well when I had just started, same with this. That being said i remember that i taught myself how to "scream" in a matter of days though. In my opinion screaming is not an instrument, and it destroys any of the musical qualities death metal possesses, screaming vocals aren't pitched, so it seems reminiscent of having a non pitched percussion instrument out front playing the "melody." And you can't tell me it has to do with lyrics, because you can't understand the lyrics in any screaming vocals (possibly aside from Chuck Schuldiner from Death). Its not musical and therefore not my thing, but I don’t get on the internet and talk about how awful every "dirty" vocalist is, even though its much easier to distort your voice until it sounds "heavy," than to have to work on actual vocal ideas like vibrato, intonation, range, dictation, etc. You all can laugh at my vocals how ever long you want, I don’t care, there are plenty of people that have said they liked them, despite them being as rough as they are on those recordings. I'm having fun just because I enjoy music, whether everyone likes me or not doesn't have anything to do with it, if i wanted to be more popular, traditional metal is not the way to go, I could easily crank out some dissonance and dirty vocals and be much more popular if that's what I was about, but that’s not what I choose to do, love it, hate it, either way I’m going to sing as much as I feel like singing, I can only take it as a compliment that people that can truly appreciate death metal vocals don’t appreciate mine. I'm glad Jenovah after party members thought my vocals were a funny joke, I’ll try selling and album to you guys as a comedy record, maybe I’ll make some money!

[Matt Parsons]

Well it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's kind of retarded when you show it to other people and let them laugh at it, but then can't offer any other explanation as to why you hold that opinion.

First, I had never heard it before when I showed it to everyone. Alex told me that his vocals had improved a lot, and I wanted to hear it. It's always a pleasure to hear good, new metal, especially from my home town. I didn't say, "Check out this shitty band, and their shitty singer!!" I simply said, "Hey listen to this new local band." The reaction speaks for itself. By the way, most of the people at the party were fans of power metal more so than death or black metal.

You guys can listen to whatever you want to, but my band is catering to fans of traditional metal. It wouldn't make any sense for you, your band, or any other "extreme metal" fans to like the vocals because they're a completely different style.

You need to understand that I like a LOT of metal. Hell, two of my favorite bands are Into Eternity and Judas Priest, both of which have virtuoso vocalists. When I listen to extreme metal, its more for the drums and guitars than vocals. When I want to hear excellent vocals, I turn to Kamelot, Iron Maiden, Angra, Mercenary, Strapping Young Lad, etc.

It doesn't bother us at all that you don't like them, I just wanted some kind of reason as to why you feel the need to get on the damn internet and talk a bunch of shit about it.

Maybe because you posted them up on the internet on a public message board? It isn't that I don't like them, its that they aren't good. I don't like Hammerfall's vocals, but I know that they are good vocals. I don't like Dream Theater's vocals, but I know that they're good. Etc.

Well I’d just like to step in and basically reiterate what Cameron said, I don’t give a flying shit what any death metal, or whatever its called now, (I don’t really follow all the genres they get to be ridiculous) say about my vocals, it is a very different style,

lulz I'm a death metal

I know my vocals are far from perfect as of yet, they are very much a work in progress, as is any instrument that's just being learned, I sure as hell didn’t just pick up a guitar and know how to play it well when I had just started, same with this.

Ok, I understand exactly where you're coming from. The difference is, when you sucked at guitar, you didn't post it up on the internet for the whole world to see. And, if you had, people would have said, "This is shitty guitar playing." And they would have been right.

Likewise, NO ONE cares that you've only been singing for so long and don't have it mastered. They don't want to hear your voice until its good. Until then, if you keep recording crappy vocals, people are going to completely dismiss your band, and will associate you with shitty vocals, completely tainting any future bands you're in. Don't do that to yourself.

That being said i remember that i taught myself how to "scream" in a matter of days though. In my opinion screaming is not an instrument, and it destroys any of the musical qualities death metal possesses, screaming vocals aren't pitched, so it seems reminiscent of having a non pitched percussion instrument out front playing the "melody." And you can't tell me it has to do with lyrics, because you can't understand the lyrics in any screaming vocals (possibly aside from Chuck Schuldiner from Death). Its not musical and therefore not my thing, but I don’t get on the internet and talk about how awful every "dirty" vocalist is, even though its much easier to distort your voice until it sounds "heavy," than to have to work on actual vocal ideas like vibrato, intonation, range, dictation, etc.

You learned to scream in a matter of days? That explains why your scream is completely weak sounding. So if it is so unmusical, why do you use it in your music?

What do you think Devin Townsend would say about that? He's probably one of the most talented musicians in metal today, and his vocals range from soft singing to balls out screams. His screams are definitely pitched, definitely have vibrato, and definitely are understandable.

Just because a lot of people suck at screaming, does not mean that all screaming sucks.

Let me reiterate my purpose with this: I'm not trying to make you feel like shit. I'm not trying to say, "Fuck you Justin Jackson and your shitty vocals!!" I'm saying, "That sounds bad, and you shouldn't do it".

It really detracts from your music, which is otherwise pretty solid.

[BlackRoija]

I remember seeing Shadows in Eden with Sacrosanct in March or something. The vocalist WAS pretty weak. Too much forced-sounding vibrato abuse with no power.

[samsara]

Well it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but it's kind of retarded when you show it to other people and let them laugh at it, but then can't offer any other explanation as to why you hold that opinion.

First, I had never heard it before when I showed it to everyone. Alex told me that his vocals had improved a lot, and I wanted to hear it. It's always a pleasure to hear good, new metal, especially from my home town. I didn't say, "Check out this shitty band, and their shitty singer!!" I simply said, "Hey listen to this new local band." The reaction speaks for itself. By the way, most of the people at the party were fans of power metal more so than death or black metal.

You guys can listen to whatever you want to, but my band is catering to fans of traditional metal. It wouldn't make any sense for you, your band, or any other "extreme metal" fans to like the vocals because they're a completely different style.

You need to understand that I like a LOT of metal. Hell, two of my favorite bands are Into Eternity and Judas Priest, both of which have virtuoso vocalists. When I listen to extreme metal, its more for the drums and guitars than vocals. When I want to hear excellent vocals, I turn to Kamelot, Iron Maiden, Angra, Mercenary, Strapping Young Lad, etc.

It doesn't bother us at all that you don't like them, I just wanted some kind of reason as to why you feel the need to get on the damn internet and talk a bunch of shit about it.

Maybe because you posted them up on the internet on a public message board? It isn't that I don't like them, its that they aren't good. I don't like Hammerfall's vocals, but I know that they are good vocals. I don't like Dream Theater's vocals, but I know that they're good. Etc.

Well I’d just like to step in and basically reiterate what Cameron said, I don’t give a flying shit what any death metal, or whatever its called now, (I don’t really follow all the genres they get to be ridiculous) say about my vocals, it is a very different style,

lulz I'm a death metal

I know my vocals are far from perfect as of yet, they are very much a work in progress, as is any instrument that's just being learned, I sure as hell didn’t just pick up a guitar and know how to play it well when I had just started, same with this.

Ok, I understand exactly where you're coming from. The difference is, when you sucked at guitar, you didn't post it up on the internet for the whole world to see. And, if you had, people would have said, "This is shitty guitar playing." And they would have been right.

Likewise, NO ONE cares that you've only been singing for so long and don't have it mastered. They don't want to hear your voice until its good. Until then, if you keep recording crappy vocals, people are going to completely dismiss your band, and will associate you with shitty vocals, completely tainting any future bands you're in. Don't do that to yourself.

That being said i remember that i taught myself how to "scream" in a matter of days though. In my opinion screaming is not an instrument, and it destroys any of the musical qualities death metal possesses, screaming vocals aren't pitched, so it seems reminiscent of having a non pitched percussion instrument out front playing the "melody." And you can't tell me it has to do with lyrics, because you can't understand the lyrics in any screaming vocals (possibly aside from Chuck Schuldiner from Death). Its not musical and therefore not my thing, but I don’t get on the internet and talk about how awful every "dirty" vocalist is, even though its much easier to distort your voice until it sounds "heavy," than to have to work on actual vocal ideas like vibrato, intonation, range, dictation, etc.

You learned to scream in a matter of days? That explains why your scream is completely weak sounding. So if it is so unmusical, why do you use it in your music?

What do you think Devin Townsend would say about that? He's probably one of the most talented musicians in metal today, and his vocals range from soft singing to balls out screams. His screams are definitely pitched, definitely have vibrato, and definitely are understandable.

Just because a lot of people suck at screaming, does not mean that all screaming sucks.

Let me reiterate my purpose with this: I'm not trying to make you feel like shit. I'm not trying to say, "Fuck you Justin Jackson and your shitty vocals!!" I'm saying, "That sounds bad, and you shouldn't do it".

It really detracts from your music, which is otherwise pretty solid.

In my opinion any kind of screaming isn’t my thing, good, bad, whatever, I don’t care. Its just not an "instrument" (if you want to call it that) that I want to hear anymore. I used to use screaming in my music, but I also used to shit in diapers and eat liquified food when I was born. Well I grew out of that just like I grew out of screaming vocals, if you're referring to the little bit of screaming in that hierarchy song that was my brother, and it was an effect, I suppose screaming can work for a musical effect, just like a minor 2nd or a blast beat, communicating anguish or a sinister side of the song, but when it becomes almost the whole song it ceases to serve a musical purpose and becomes overdone and annoying to me.

I just got sick of the focus being on "heavy" songs rather than musical ones and I really cant listen to noise like that anymore.

As far as my screaming in SIE went, I respect the opinions of Atheist and Gnostic as far as dirty vocals go much more than yours, they genuinely liked the screaming vocals I did and they are an established death metal act.

Finally you aren't making me feel like shit, you couldn’t if you tried, just because you know a few more traditional metal bands doesn’t make you an aficionado on anything from that genre. My brother posted for everyone to listen to the songs on here because we were looking for genuine critique not useless criticism where you don’t like it just because you don’t, thanks, that helps us out a lot... I knew from the second I decided to sing in this style that the vocals wouldn’t be liked by a lot of people, again, singing is the most subjective thing in today’s music, especially because its different than the norm around here. Screaming is much more safe, and therefore its not criticized half as much, but this area sure as hell doesn’t need another screaming, blast beat death metal band, in fact I don’t think there’s any need for another band like that in general. Its been done, the trend needs to go out, yes more power metal type music has also been done, but as far as I’m concerned there is much farther to go with it.

Anyway, I'm done sitting here arguing about it, I know it will never get anywhere with you guys, but I thought I'd just say those last few things. Sorry, but I'm never going to take your criticism seriously when you don't have a single thing to back it up.-


Justin

[Matt Parsons]

Have fun being the joke of the metal scene!