Debate about DIY venues

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regurgitated death
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Post by regurgitated death » Tue August 16th, 2011, 12:12 pm

Brian wrote:I personally know at least 3 people who have had their windows smashed/car broken into/etc at the Masquerade. That shit happens all over Atlanta.
Point taken but doesn't generally happen in the paid parking area. And generally speaking if that happens at a commercial venue on their property generally speaking they take a liability to pay for it. A way of saying, 'sorry for the inconvenience but we hope you come again.'

As for 'DIY' vs. a commercial venue being more beneficial to the scene that is debatable as each is operated by different standards if you will.

When you pay $20 for a show or that extra buck 50 for that drink you're paying for the Masquerade to be able to pay the bands so they can tour. You're paying for the rent/mortgage, electric, water and other utilities. You're paying salaries of the people who work there. You're paying for the promotion so you actually know about the show. Those CL ads and radio spots aren't free. Your ticket pays for the 'rider' of the bands which is food/beer for the entire crew the band is traveling with, in some cases hotel rooms so they aren't sleeping on the floor of a cramped apartment.

The reason you don't pay that much at a DIY spot is they don't employ anybody, they don't pay taxes, insurance fees, license fees, maintenance fees to keep the building up to city codes, plus other county health codes. And they barely scrap up 10 bucks to let you know about a show. They don't go that extra mile with hospitality for the band.

DIY spots also don't think beyond their current show unless it's a non-profit like Wonder Root or Eyedrum and whom for the most part are supported through membership dues, grants, donations and other sponsorships so in that case some one has pretty much paid part of what you should pay for you in a socialist sort of way.
585 was a good 'party' spot that occasionally brought some bigger bands in but the reality has proved there was either no long term planning from the start or those kids really had no clue so not all 'DIY' venues have a long term positive effect on the scene.

Masq, DU, The EARL are all businesses the commonality is they all provide a place for live music not strictly punk or metal. DU and Masq are for the most part strictly music venues and you don't go there for really anything else. But for the most part because they have some sort of business plan they generally stay in business longer than a 'DIY' spot so based on the fact the Masquerade has been open over 20 years suggest they are actually more valuable to the scene growing than say 585 or Archive or that random house venue that springs up from time to time that is not even making a tangent commitment to either bands or music fans.

But 'DIY' spots like Wonder Root and Eyedrum I'll give them their due because they give any band a starting point. And Wonder Root does give artists and musicians the resources they need such as use of studio space, use of a dark room, and media space. But I consider them more of a community space than 'DIY' space. The only downside is because they are run on a volunteer basis they have a tendency to more often than not overbook a night and usually it's the awesome Punk or Metal band that gets axed because people that run them aren't inclined to be Punk or Metal fans.

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Post by Brian » Tue August 16th, 2011, 12:30 pm

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SlashAndThrash
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Post by SlashAndThrash » Tue August 16th, 2011, 1:48 pm

you are obviously a fucking retard, end of story. nothing you said could be any more wrong or ignorant. maybe you should stay at mom and dad's instead of trying to get involved.
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doubledogpaleale
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Post by doubledogpaleale » Tue August 16th, 2011, 2:42 pm

do you work for the masq dude? because holy shit....
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regurgitated death
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Post by regurgitated death » Tue August 16th, 2011, 3:49 pm

SlashAndThrash wrote:you are obviously a fucking retard, end of story. nothing you said could be any more wrong or ignorant. maybe you should stay at mom and dad's instead of trying to get involved.
I'm just being a realist sorry if it bust your fantasy bubble. I actually pay my own rent for the apartment that I lease with the money I earn painting. I go to shows and spend money therefore as I customer I am involved. So as a customer I think I can put my constructive two cents in without condensing it down to a immature high school level.

My point is as valid as anyone's on this board. My points it seems are also objectively given. No I don't work at the Masquerade but by running my own painting company at barely 20; I appreciate more the responsibility the Masquerade takes on because of certain liabilities just a little more than the average underage kid whose not content with a place to be able to see a show. But he wants to drink and do drugs there as well both of which are illegal and could get the Masquerade shut down. That's what after parties are for. I tend to be analytical and look at the entire picture not a selfish personal view. Or the adult that is simply not being real to the fact live music in its finality whether it's a 'DIY' spot or a licensed commercial venue is still a business.

I can think of several reasons why DIY venues fail and a lot of that includes the very reasons you mentioned for going. And it's not a venue that brings bands to a city it's a promoter. And good promoter's start with reliable venues i.e. Masquerade, DU and The Earl, The Star Bar. I have talked with several people whom have been veterans of the Atlanta punk and metal scenes for years, cats that run some of the venue and the same theme runs through their failures. A strictly punk or metal venue cannot survive long they can only exist as short term aberrations because most lack sensible and basic business practice. Much of which is common sense.

A lot of 'cool' shows that went to 585 wouldn't play well at the Masquerade anyway since less than 50 people would be there. So the Masquerade won't book it to begin with since financially it doesn't make good business sense. However they have no qualms with an independent promoter coming in and promoting a 'cool' band and renting it out. A lot whom are very good promoters.

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Post by Brian » Tue August 16th, 2011, 3:52 pm

It's a good thing that you're looking at it 'analytically' and 'objectively'. The problem is just that you're either flat out wrong or grossly misinformed about 95% of what you posted.

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DrkLrdViper666
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Post by DrkLrdViper666 » Tue August 16th, 2011, 4:10 pm

Here, here! I totally Agree w/ you brian!
Bravo & Very Well Said Brian! :D
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Odinson666
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man

Post by Odinson666 » Tue August 16th, 2011, 4:31 pm

whats with kids these days being such pussies
, when i was in high school i walked my ass down to the ghetto and got a fake id and went to whatever shows i wanted to go to ,
kids whining about 18 + shows , get your white ass down to the west end mall or that mall over by five points marta station or one of several fines establishments on buford highway

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Assault
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Post by Assault » Tue August 16th, 2011, 4:53 pm

as someone who helped book and run shows at 585, your statements straight up fucking offend me.

no hospitality? you can take that statement and shove it up your arse. we always went out of our way at 585 for the touring bands, paying out of pocket for food, drinks, drugs, and some gas to provide for someone who is on the road so they can fucking enjoy themselves and suvive. and we did it because we liked the bands but most important, we were friends with them. you show a friend respect and they will show it back. we had bands from other fucking countries and should them the same respect for north american bands

we were alwas booking months ahead of our selves and planned alot of shit but as with most business's we had differences in ideas and fallng outs. its what happens, and its happened to the masq also. so dont say we didnt know what we were fucking doing, because we knew what was up and how to run shows.
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SlashAndThrash
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Post by SlashAndThrash » Tue August 16th, 2011, 4:56 pm

regurgitated death wrote: the fact live music in its finality whether it's a 'DIY' spot or a licensed commercial venue is still a business.
this specifically is why nothing you say fucking matters and you obviously can't be a part of any scene, because you just don't get it. If that's your idea of being "realistic" then welcome to the one man club in atlanta you just started.
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Mangled
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Post by Mangled » Tue August 16th, 2011, 5:11 pm

Anyone who wants to trash 585 can suck my ass. That place ruled and had huge bands play there due to their reputation of taking care of bands, promoting, and everyone having a good time. Guess what? When you don't pay 20 dollars a ticket you have money to buy merch that goes STRAIGHT TO THE BAND. Not to mention some extra cash for some beers if you wanted. As someone who has played and toured in bands for years, i can speak from experience when i say a spot like 585 is the reason i play music.

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In Ruins
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Post by In Ruins » Tue August 16th, 2011, 10:57 pm

Mangled wrote:Anyone who wants to trash 585 can suck my ass.
^Awesome

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nastynate
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Post by nastynate » Wed August 17th, 2011, 12:50 am

This
welcome to the one man club in atlanta you just started

regurgitated death
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Post by regurgitated death » Wed August 17th, 2011, 1:12 am

SlashAndThrash wrote:
regurgitated death wrote: the fact live music in its finality whether it's a 'DIY' spot or a licensed commercial venue is still a business.
this specifically is why nothing you say fucking matters and you obviously can't be a part of any scene, because you just don't get it. If that's your idea of being "realistic" then welcome to the one man club in atlanta you just started.
Real is paying the rent. On time. It's keeping the electric on so you can have shows. It's putting money aside for new equipment, repairs and other emergencies. It's putting enough aside to get you through tough times. It's opening with enough funding that at least your first 6 months is paid for.

It you're going to go through all that effort do it right if you really want to do something for 'the scene' otherwise stfu and stop crying about how real businesses do the things necessary to stay open as long as they do. Masquerade 20+ years, Star Bar 20+ years, The Earl 10+years I mean even Wonder Root is going on about 5 years.

Oh by the way when's the next show @ 585?
Last edited by regurgitated death on Wed August 17th, 2011, 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: man

Post by Generubin » Wed August 17th, 2011, 1:12 am

Odinson666 wrote:whats with kids these days being such pussies
, when i was in high school i walked my ass down to the ghetto and got a fake id and went to whatever shows i wanted to go to ,
kids whining about 18 + shows , get your white ass down to the west end mall or that mall over by five points marta station or one of several fines establishments on buford highway

Best post ever. This thread is full of some serious bro love.
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