American support of Israel.

[stalindrummer]

Wait a second, the Republican party is meddling in religious issues? At the expense of taxpayers and in lieu of things that actually matter?

SHOCKING!

PWN!

[Strangler]

I fucking love U.S. propaganda. They will call anything a terror act but what about their invasion of Iraq? To me, U.S. is a terrorist in this situation and world is not doing shit to prevent this from happening. *clap clap*

the difference is in the motives. saddam is a proven killer. our goal was to prevent him from killing more innocent people and i think we should've bombed his ass a long time ago. the UN wasted time with a bunch of resolutions but no actions. our goal was not to disrupt and destroy iraq, but to remove saddam from power and institute a democracy. obviously we could've done a better job, but we're still there trying to create a peaceful iraq. find me a terrorist that stuck around after the bombing to help clean up. oh, wait, they're all a bunch of cowards.

No, no, no. Your goal was to get rid of those "weapons of mass destruction". Remember? Where is Bin Laden? Iraq was in much better shape with Saddam than now. Democracry, pfft. Right. Liberating my ass.

[WREKage-Paul]

I fucking love U.S. propaganda. They will call anything a terror act but what about their invasion of Iraq? To me, U.S. is a terrorist in this situation and world is not doing shit to prevent this from happening. *clap clap*

the difference is in the motives. saddam is a proven killer. our goal was to prevent him from killing more innocent people and i think we should've bombed his ass a long time ago. the UN wasted time with a bunch of resolutions but no actions. our goal was not to disrupt and destroy iraq, but to remove saddam from power and institute a democracy. obviously we could've done a better job, but we're still there trying to create a peaceful iraq. find me a terrorist that stuck around after the bombing to help clean up. oh, wait, they're all a bunch of cowards.

No, no, no. Your goal was to get rid of those "weapons of mass destruction". Remember?

Yep. Which were reported to be in Iraq by the Brits, specifically MI-6. Unfortunately, the CIA didn't have the assets in place to verify them (Clinton can take some blame for underfunding the CIA, but it wouldn't have been easy to have agents in place even with good funding).

Why do you think Tony Blair -- who ideologically wasn't even close to Bush or the GOP, he's Labour -- has been the only global leader to fully sign on for the Iraq War? Hint: it was his intel that got us into it in the first place.

Where is Bin Laden?

Pakistan.

Iraq was in much better shape with Saddam than now. Democracry, pfft. Right. Liberating my ass.

Abject horseshit. Well done, dope.

The 4th of July is a great holiday here.... Fireworks, cookouts....and a lot of US servicemen home on leave from Iraq. I spoke to a lot of them, and every last one of them says that the Iraq you see and hear about in the media -- which publishes bad news because, let's face it, bad news sells, and good news doesn't -- is far different from the "real" Iraq. Rebuilding, new construction, more openness..... Sure, it's no picnic in the 'hot zones,' but there are entire regions/provinces/satrapies/whatever of Iraq that are much better off without Saddam. If you aren't sure, ask any Kurd.

As for the Hezbollah/Israel mess..... It won't be allowed to escalate beyond the region. (Yep, it's kinda handy that the G8 meeting in Russia is happening right now.) There is no long-term political solution to the mess, but there might be a religious one. It would require an outside intermediary and some force of arms. Hint: Tom Clancy might have gotten it right.

Oh, for the person who yelled about global warming.... You do know that all of humankind at our very worst is responsible for, at most, a whole whopping 2% of worldwide greenhouse emissions, right? You can jump up and down and scream and try to guilt-trip us all you want to.... By crippling industry we might be able to reduce our emissions by 25%. Wow, that's a whole half a percent. Yee-hah.

I vote we start with your house -- cut the utility lines -- and your car. I'm sure you won't mind, it's for the good of the planet, after all.

[NeuroNomicon]

...oh yeah, we've crippled Industry, Paul. Since the US actually enforces environmental regulations, big biz has just up and moved shop to China, where they don't care about human rights, nevermind the environment.

Paul, just keep voting Republican. You talk a mean game. If you as supportive, and are so afraid of the big bad terrorists, why aren't you enlisted?

[WREKage-Paul]

...oh yeah, we've crippled Industry, Paul.

No, we haven't.


My point was, even if we did, it wouldn't really matter a hill of beans.

Since the US actually enforces environmental regulations, big biz has just up and moved shop to China, where they don't care about human rights, nevermind the environment.

Gee, guess which country is exempt from the Kyoto Protocols? Hint, it wouldn't be us, if we were still part of it.

Paul, just keep voting Republican. You talk a mean game. If you as supportive, and are so afraid of the big bad terrorists, why aren't you enlisted?

Way to address the original topic, there! "Hmm, I don't actually have a defense for Paul's post, so...hey, I'll just try to attack the guy on his perceived inaction!"

You know I'm pretty freakin' old, right? I checked into enlisting years ago, and I was already a year or two above the limit. --And doubtless too fat, but that's another issue. But, you said our portions are declining! Oh, happy day! We're all saved!

And for the record, I'm a libertarian. Note the lack of a capital "L."

[egg yolkeo]

...the Doomsday clock is ticking further towards annihilation...why? The main questions to be asked is where this is all taking us collectively as human beings.

While we're overseas "fighting the "good" fight", our country has degraded into an economic cesspool. The price of goods is rapidly increasing, mostly due to a seriously weakened dollar. Our infrastructure has been sold out to the highest bidder, and it's so absurd that McDonalds is outsourcing its drive-thru workers to India. Now when you drive up to the speaker, you're talking to someone working for $.0.25 an hour to place your order over voice/IP, and so on...

Look at your goods. They're all made in China. Why? Because with the deevaluation of the US dollar, it's the only way the American population can be duped into believing we're still partaking in a healthy economy. How can an economy be healthy when our nation doesn't even produce anything anymore? The American economy is now centered around bug-zappers, paper-pushers, and tanning salons. We offer nothing distinctive. We push no more boundaries. We cross no more thresholds.

You want disturbing? Notice the portioning of your foodstuffs. The sizes are slowly decreasing in near imperceptible increments. This is to prevent a rapid escalation in pricing; it's being offset by smaller sizes. However; at this point, people are beginning to realise this. It's only a matter of time before the portions can no longer shrink and the price MUST go up.

You want to know why we're having issues in the Middle East? It's called "Resource Wars". Our funding of our military adventures overseas is to prevent an economic perfect storm. With dwindling supplies of what it takes to support our wantonly wasteful way of life, we've got a government that is unwilling to push new frontiers, and instead ensure that we fight to the end to get the last black drop of the dinosaur juice.

You're witnessing the beginning of the end on a massive scale.



"Give us a cause for the wreckless excess"

This is the stupidest shit I have ever read. I have heard that smoking pot will kill brain cells but reading the shit this jackass write's will do the same.

As far as the rest of this thread goes it quite clear to me that everyone here thinks that Isreal along with us should not defend themselves.

Im with you on this,and ya your 'jackass' analogy is dead on.

[NeuroNomicon]

No Paul, it's just that it's the same thing all the time with you. Do you honestly believe our foreign policy, with regards to the Middle East is really based on good intentions? Do you HONESTLY believe it's just as simple as good guy/bad guy? No specific argument is directed back at you, and if it's taken as a personal attack, so be it, but dude, you're buying the party line hook-line and sinker. The 9/11 thing is getting very, very fucking old. What in the fuck does Iraq have to do with 9/11? Beyond that, no one will address the religious issue.

Did anyone stop to consider that we've got a bunch of people in the desert, who all hate each other due to a sense of entitlement? You can't make that go away. They're always going to be fighting. The argument to be made here is that there are bigger DOMESTIC issues to simmer on, rather than going to fight Orwell's unvictorious, incessant "War on Terror". It's bullshit. Look at our "War on Drugs".

It's time we declare a "War on Hyperbole".

As far as the jackass thing goes, egg yolko, what, in particular is so "jackass" about it. Death2ALL can barely even write, let alone put together a coherent argument. As Paul has pointed out, it's far easier just to make personal attacks and name-call than to actually provide a means to support your perspective.



Do you all REALLY think this fucking government gives two shits about oppressed peoples? We'd be in North Korea or China cracking skulls if we were really the defenders of truth or justice. We'd be cutting off trade with China if their cheap labour wasn't keeping our economy afloat.

The Middle East is, and forever will be a bunch of zealots fighting over mythological characters from dusty works of fiction. It is the rational equivalent of the Italians and the Greeks fighting over who Zeus loves most.

The only thing that causes concern on the part of foreign governments is that Middle East, squabbling over fantasy as it may be, is sitting atop a creamy nougat center of Pterodactyl batter.

[ProstheticHead12]

Thanks Paul. I had quit the thread thanks to retarded name calling and lack of actual discussion. And why the emphasis on lowercase "L" for libertarian?

For everybody else: why can't you just discuss a point without automatically assuming the person you disagree with is all the worst stereotypes of either Democrats or Republicans? Just discuss the merits of their argument without being a jackass.

[necroodin]

Don't you know that debating things on their merits, might mean saying someone else is right, every once in awhile? WE CANT HAVE THAT

[Death2all]

As far as the jackass thing goes, egg yolko, what, in particular is so "jackass" about it. Death2ALL can barely even write, let alone put together a coherent argument. As Paul has pointed out, it's far easier just to make personal attacks and name-call than to actually provide a means to support your perspective.

As far as the jackass thing goes I am sorry your right I shouldn't have called you a jackass being that you write a better coherent argument than me. The jackass thing was said about half the shit you write it is only a matter of opinion. I believe Paul is right about the no one likes good news thing. I think people like you love the bullshit that is spouted off on the news ,you take it and run with it.

Did anyone stop to consider that we've got a bunch of people in the desert, who all hate each other due to a sense of entitlement? You can't make that go away. They're always going to be fighting. The argument to be made here is that there are bigger DOMESTIC issues to simmer on, rather than going to fight Orwell's unvictorious, incessant "War on Terror". It's bullshit. Look at our "War on Drugs".

I think that going into Iraq was in part to set up for the next stage in taking on Iran. Yes we have DOMESTIC issues that can still be dealt with right now. I think the US has a better plan set to stop Iran from getting nukes now rather than waitting to deal with it after they have them. Its seems to me that you would rather wait till a nuke has been used against America to do anything about it. It also seems to me that you play right into the hands of the liberal media.

[NeuroNomicon]

...our opinions are invalidated by the following theories/beliefs:

1) The US is in Iraq to spread Democracy
2) There's no such thing as global warming
3) Multinational Corporations have our best interests at heart, and are socially-conscious, well-intending, patriarchical organisations.
4) The big bad terrorists are waiting/lurking behind every corner, just waiting to get you, and it's all because they hate freedom
5) Outsourcing to China/India and the third world in general is a good thing
6) The US economy is great. Never been better. We've got no national debt whatsoever, in fact, it's the lowest its ever been.
7) Americans have the highest scores in mathematics and science in the world.
The US is number one in manufacturing and high-tech industry.
9) The US dollar has never been stronger as an international currency. The exchange rate has never been better. The dollar is the strongest reserve currency on the international marketplace.
10) Fiat money has inherent value
11) The US exports more than it imports
12) Jay-zus sayvs

[Holiday Rambler]

For everybody else: why can't you just discuss a point without automatically assuming the person you disagree with is all the worst stereotypes of either Democrats or Republicans?

Because the "point" being made was stereotypically underinformed, knee-jerk ignorance like:

Step one is kill all the fuckers that won't think twice about killing us first. Enough Geneva Convention bullshit written for a different era.

I still think killing them is better than them killing us.

find me a terrorist that stuck around after the bombing to help clean up

they don't want peace, they want us destroyed. until the world is an islamic state they won't be satisfied. this isn't a majority of muslims (i hope)

Just a guess, though.

[ProstheticHead12]

For everybody else: why can't you just discuss a point without automatically assuming the person you disagree with is all the worst stereotypes of either Democrats or Republicans?

Because the "point" being made was stereotypically underinformed, knee-jerk ignorance like:

Step one is kill all the fuckers that won't think twice about killing us first. Enough Geneva Convention bullshit written for a different era.

I still think killing them is better than them killing us.

find me a terrorist that stuck around after the bombing to help clean up

they don't want peace, they want us destroyed. until the world is an islamic state they won't be satisfied. this isn't a majority of muslims (i hope)

Just a guess, though.

No one said any of the things I was criticizing towards me. It was the wrestling, nascar bullshit towards death2all and the gay marriage towards neuronomicon.

I wasn't very eloquent but I stand by my statements. If there are terrorists in Guantanamo with information about future terrorist attacks I think we should torture them to get it. I guarantee it won't be half as bad as what those 2 American soldiers suffered recently in Iraq. They hold out because they know we won't kill or even hurt them.

If someone wants to kill you, and has the plans and means to do so, are you just going to sit there and take it? No, you kill them first. Not everyone associated with them like terrorists do to us, but military targets and their leaders.

Find me a terrorist that stopped to help clean things up afterwards. Seriously.

When was the last successful negotiation with a terrorist? When has diplomacy worked with terrorists?

None of those statements are kneejerk, and please inform me if you think I'm underinformed.

[Death2all]

I don't agree with Holiday Rambler or Necronomicon and there paranoid delusional rhetoric.

[ProstheticHead12]

...our opinions are invalidated by the following theories/beliefs:

1) The US is in Iraq to spread Democracy
2) There's no such thing as global warming
3) Multinational Corporations have our best interests at heart, and are socially-conscious, well-intending, patriarchical organisations.
4) The big bad terrorists are waiting/lurking behind every corner, just waiting to get you, and it's all because they hate freedom
5) Outsourcing to China/India and the third world in general is a good thing
6) The US economy is great. Never been better. We've got no national debt whatsoever, in fact, it's the lowest its ever been.
7) Americans have the highest scores in mathematics and science in the world.
The US is number one in manufacturing and high-tech industry.
9) The US dollar has never been stronger as an international currency. The exchange rate has never been better. The dollar is the strongest reserve currency on the international marketplace.
10) Fiat money has inherent value
11) The US exports more than it imports
12) Jay-zus sayvs

Who exactly are you arguing with? I'll respond anyway.

1. No we aren't. But don't act like oil is the sole reason we're there.
2. It's the cause that is being disputed.
3. Who the hell said that?
4. Oversimplification, and they hate us because they view us as decadent and arrogant and not Islamic. The Koran instructs them to convert, tax, or subjugate non Islamics.
5. Good for businesses, not so much for the rest of us.
6. The job market is doing well, the debt will never go anywhere with any of the current politicians in power. Maybe they should try spending less.
7. Fixing education is a whole nother animal.
8. No one said that.
9. Or that.
10. I don't know what fiat money is - please enlighten me.
11. Not last time I checked.
12. Wrong, but I doubt you'll argue with me on that one.